Labor Has Lost Its Pricing Power

In a recent Question of the Week, we sought to determine why the so-called good life has edged beyond the reach of the broad middle class. If this perplexing turn of events is causing pain and frustration for many, it is about to rain calamity on the lives of Baby Boomers, who as a group have not saved nearly enough for retirement. This means they will have to rely on today’s twenty-  and thirty-somethings to pay a hefty chunk of their Social Security and Medicare benefits. This is preposterous on its face, since there are not nearly enough good jobs for young people to meet their own financial needs, let alone those of scores of millions of new retirees.

Is there a chance the situation will improve?  Probably not. America’s standard of living appears destined to remain in a downward spiral that will abate only as wages in the U.S. move toward equilibrium with those paid elsewhere in the world. The most lucid explanation of this we have seen was posted recently at ZeroHedge, where the rough-and-tumble discussion often yields insights that will forever elude a mainstream media that knows only how to pander. The author has identified himself as ‘chindit13’, and although we are unable to credit him by his real name, we are most thankful nonetheless for the brilliant clarity of his thoughts, to wit:

The Debt Problem

“All the arguments and frustrations expressed in these periodic meat-tossing, cross-generational smackdowns are symptoms, not causes, of the underlying problem, which is that on a worldwide basis, labor has lost its pricing power.  The world is too efficient at production, and cannot create sufficient demand, except through debt.  The debt problem is a symptom.  Debt was the stop gap solution as society tried to find a reason to be for everyone.  No solution was found, and now the debt itself has become a secondary problem.

“Thirty years ago, those who thought about it felt blessed that they weren’t born a female in rural Bangladesh.  As labor has lost its pricing power worldwide, the opportunity gap between that female born in rural Bangladesh and a white male born in the US has closed considerably.  The Bangladeshi girl will still argue that the gap is wide, and it is, but objectively one can see that it is closing.  Despite the hand wringing and frustration, though, few of the young US white males would trade places with that rural Bangladeshi girl.  With time, the gap will close further and it will be six of one, a half dozen in the other.  It’s not going to get any better.

Reaper Displaced Workers

“A hundred fifty years ago the world saw the introduction of the McCormick Combine.  A machine could do in a single day the work it took fifty men two weeks to perform.  Efficiency thus came first to farming and the production of food.  The most developed parts of the world were lucky, because there was an Industrial Revolution to absorb displaced farm workers.  Also, worldwide labor wasn’t yet arbitrage-able.

“Manufacturing has seen a thousand different McCormick Combines come to the fore.  Improvements in shipping, technology, and eventually the internet made labor a commodity, no longer limited by location, and major advances in efficiency and productivity chipped away at labor’s pricing power.  Thus we had increased supply and decreased pricing power at the same time.  That is not a recipe for upward mobility for those entering the workforce.

No Industrial Revolution

“There is no Industrial Revolution to absorb the redundant and superfluous.  The only thing we’ve got, and it is a distant second, is social networking.  Facebook, Google and their bastard offspring, however, cannot absorb all the labor looking for gainful employment.

“Some will argue that the solution is protectionism.  They will argue that those accidentally whelped behind a particular border owe it to others whelped behind the same border to support them and give their lives meaning.  So far, most people have chosen not to join what Kurt Vonnegut called a ‘granfalloon’, an artificial community based on some arbitrary or random commonality, such as place of birth.  The main reason is because it costs too much.  People, being ‘human’, might speak in homilies, but in their heart of hearts they want all labor outsourced except their own, especially when they get to the check-out counter in the store.

Plague Ended Feudalism

“The last time labor had such little pricing power, the predominant economic construct was feudalism.  That ended when labor gained pricing power.  That pricing power came in the form of The Plague.  That was quite a price to pay.  Many who realize what is happening now are grabbing for all they can while they can, all the while keeping their mouths shut about the grand and inexorable trend, lest a general panic set in.  If there is any grand conspiracy, this is it.

“Existence moves in great cycles.  Accidents of birth leave us all in a place and of a time not of our own choosing.  We can do little but make the best of what we were dealt.   Sad to say, Millennials showed up at a bad time, albeit still in a good place relatively, compared to that rural born Bangladeshi female.  Those looking to blame someone might turn to their church, or absent faith, just scream at the great beyond.  Neither will do a lick of good, but it might make some feel better.

“There is no solution.  This is just the beginning of the singularity.  Sorry.”

  • mava October 22, 2013, 8:54 pm

    Because, there is no return from this bill. You can remove a socialist policy, but you will never have the innocence of American people back. Once taught to steal from each-other, they will never be able to go back to being innocent civilians. Socialism can not be undone. The country affected by it has to cease it’s existence. No country significantly affected by Socialism did or will ever be back to normal, no matter the presentational attempt to prove the opposite.

    If you can’t follow me on this point, think of the subject of children’s innocence – it has a lot of similarity with Obama-Care. Yes, you can hang the abuser, but you will never restore the innocence.

  • Kibitzer October 21, 2013, 12:18 am

    So, Gary, the republicans should take a lesson from Nero and just fiddle while America Burns? Yes the bill is so bad that it will destroy the democrats. Unfortunately it will, at the same time, destroy the American middle class.

  • gary leibowitz October 20, 2013, 6:02 pm

    Obama care is clearly a product of the Democratic party.
    The Republican party is firing all its ammo on the repeal.
    The big question is why? Clearly a disastrous program of this magnitude will destroy the Democratic party in 2 years time if the outcome is that bad. Why in the world will the Republican party want to stop it from taking affect? Anyone? They have been playing the political game for so long that it just doesn’t make sense.

    If a program of this monumental mistake takes hold, wouldn’t the Republicans just sit back and allow it to happen? The best, least costly strategy of the Republican party would be to let it fail. Am I missing something? Sure looks like desperation from the Republicans to fight a bill that already passed.

    Has anyone thought about this? I guess I am just reading too much into this.

    &&&&&

    I completely agree. RA

    • gary leibowitz October 21, 2013, 5:15 am

      Rick agrees? A first! I should quit right now and put my money in the lottery.

      • mario cavolo October 21, 2013, 7:52 am

        I have happily fallen out of my chair.

        First of all, this is a brilliant point on Gary’s part. And Rick following through only puts a finer point on it.

        I think I have to pop a bottle of champagne.

  • Craig October 18, 2013, 9:51 pm

    This is for Jilly-poo and her heroes the Clintons (the slightly less worse than Bush in her opinion). Jill a crime is a crime and they should all go to jail not be praised because they were slightly maybe alittle better in your opinion. I still don’t know how ANY woman can defend this pig (Clinton) because he says “I feel your pain” when he rapes and chokes woman repeatedly (allegedly… :). )

    Larry Nichols, former 10 year accomplice to the Clinton’s , can now add hit-man to his list of dirty deeds. Nichols dropped a bombshell on The Pete Santilli Show when he very calmly admitted that he had murdered people, on command, for Bill and Hillary Clinton. Mr. Nichols has been a voice crying out in the wilderness since he brought to light the sexual brutality of Bill Clinton during his reign as Governor in Arkansas. That information would eventually play a key role to Clinton’s impeachment in the 90′s. Larry says he makes no apologies.

    They sent me overseas to kill people for them and told me it was for the good of the Country. So when they asked me to do it for them in the States it felt no different. The real truth is, I did it for the money and I didn’t give a shit about the women I beat and the men I murdered. The Clintons are bad people and I did bad things for them. I had to live with that all of these years and now I just don’t care anymore who knows it.

    Larry maintains the Clintons were into so many illegal activities at the time, they had to have a team of mercenaries made up of friends and state-troopers to cover it all up and keep them protected from the public finding out. According to Larry Nichols, both Bill and Hillary were wild and out of control and both were relentless in their pursuit for money and power. From running drugs, to the rape and beating of women and young girls, both of the Clintons are guilty of the unspeakable crimes.

    When Pete asked Larry about Gennifer Flowers making headlines last week claiming Bill had told her Hillary had eaten more pu*#* than he had Larry said that’s old news, and indeed it is … Larry had made that same statement on the Pete Santilli show early last spring. Larry is adamant that Hillary Clinton is a “D*%#” and always has been.

    One thing I know for sure She did have enough sex with men to have a kid, but it wasn’t Bill Clinton’s Kid she had … Chelsea is actually the daughter of Web Hubble.

    Nichols and many other insiders claim Clinton began having sex with Hubble to gain employment at The Rose Law Firm which she believed would eventually advance Bill Clinton’s chances of becoming Governor of Arkansas.

    The above quotes came from a radio interview. I have obtained a video that is posted on the same page. It is 4 hours long and I have not had time to isolate the comments so I have no idea what segment of the show contains them. I am posting the video for those who might have time to listen to it.

    • redwilldanaher October 20, 2013, 6:54 pm

      Jill is beyond ridiculous at this point. She acts like Clinton produced a balanced budget etc. I lived through it, I remember it. He went kicking and screaming to it at least on the surface. His fate became intertwined with the tech bubble, he realized that and did what he could to foment it. That’s why martha stewart and 2 other people were prosecuted during that era of mega manipulation. Same as the bush then osama years.

      As long as you have any belief at all that the “parties” are on the level, you have no hope of enlightenment…

  • DK October 17, 2013, 6:12 pm

    Whoa, not sure if anyone saw this, during the debt ceiling vote. Dragged right off the floor.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ro8bQ6Rx-Q

    • mava October 17, 2013, 8:20 pm

      I wonder what did she had to put up with all these years working as their stenographer, that she finally couldn’t control herself and went on this “bizarre” behavior?

      She didn’t just invent all this stuff right there, huh? I think she had a problem controlling herself, not the problem knowing what is going on on those floors daily.

  • mava October 17, 2013, 5:09 pm

    AWB,

    Yes, yes and yes.

    To be clear about “…the Federal Reserve Bank pumping $85 billion worth of asset purchases a month into …”

    … the Federal Reserve is stealing 85 bln dollar a month from everyone holding US dollars, just for this purpose, it is stealing much more for other purposes, and yet, all these people do not understand how this “pump” works. They think that the FED is “borrowing” this money from the wonderland.

    and “Businesses are still wary of investing”
    Hell yes, and now they forever be wary. It is easy to break the trust, but it will take centuries to return it. US govt. just f-d us all up. By dictating the rules, no matter what rules actually, it had proven that anyone business can be ruined in America by the whim of the government, just the same as in USSR. They don’t understand that through thick and thin, the “stability” was the main attractive force for myriad of businessmen around the world, and they had striven to make their business in the USA.

    Now, this is gone, thanks to this oblivious idiot at the wheel. Now, he can turn around and promise whatever he can, and yet, the people are going to remember that there are NO GUARANTEES, that everything in US is now at the president’s whim. We can forget about investment now. This is exactly what one should expect from hiring an idiot to preside over something he never even took part of.

    • Rick Ackerman October 17, 2013, 5:39 pm

      Not to sound too cynical, but if an election were held tomorrow, the idiot would probably get reelected. No question, America has got the president it deserves. This self-destructive pattern will continue when Hillary (late of Benghazi fame) is elected. As always, it’ll be a hoot to see whom the Republicans nominate to absolutely ensure her victory.

      • Craig October 17, 2013, 6:14 pm

        Rick you are correct because anyone that runs that would beat him the RNC would work with Fox to sabotage until the “perfect” candidate is selected for a dive a la McCain, also a la Kerry and gore.

        Unbelievably 2016 will be Hillary vs Jeb Bush, would not end that way but that would be the globalist desired.

        Unfortunately I thunk we saw our last election, Clinton Bush and Obama has set up executive orders to make the president dictator under any emergency. I am pretty sure that an “emergency” will arrive just on time to suspend the election…civil war by design to follow after. The writing is on the wall all over the place in bold and in 1,000 sized font.

      • mava October 17, 2013, 8:09 pm

        I don’t think so, Craig. This would overestimate the importance of elections. Russia has proven that it doesn’t matter if there are elections or not with the Putin – Medvedev pair. similarly in US, it too doesn’t matter which particular gangster is nominated to run the show, – the show will go on they way it is planned.

    • Craig October 18, 2013, 10:14 pm

      Mava elections have been “gone” since the hanging Chad gore election. That crisis took place to get the diebold election machines in as many places as possible to ensure Bush got in the second time and Obama got in twice…it also helped Reid along the way. They only votes that haven’t gone “their” way are in states without the voting machines. It would not be about keeping Obama in power it would be to give him absolute power and make the right rise up in revolt. They may change their mind, but younger right if the election goes on it will be the stooge they can control the most and can get the public to believe is “ahead” in the polls.

  • mario cavolo October 17, 2013, 12:26 pm

    Just an FYI for the team which I don’t think Rick would mind being off topic…I follow a couple of other intelligent advisors like Rick and apparently lots of folks have been watching gold & related for a critical turn right NOW at the 60 year cycle, were looking for whether or not gold would in the immediate timeframe pop up through 1293. Now, its funny to me because apparently there were loads of people right there because it did just explode above it a couple of hours ag0, a $35 shot in 5 minutes, supposedly marking the to the moon bull run now in the PM’s… On the other hand, it could be the bad guys purposely kicking it up just to screw with the rest of us, eh? 🙂

    Cheers, Mario

    • Craig October 17, 2013, 5:23 pm

      Maybe a short squeeze? We will know if it falls $20 immediately.

    • mava October 17, 2013, 5:36 pm

      You bet they are. If I had an absolutely unlimited resources (was able to print money without any limit, like the FED does), you can bet I would be messing with the price of gold, because:

      1. It would cost me absolutely nothing. I could be “wrong” on my bet on gold for 100 years and yet, I will not, can not go broke.

      2. If I can make gold look worse in any smallest way, that would make my paper funny money game points appear more awesome that they actually are, meaning that my ability to print endlessly increases. Thus, unless I want to be restrained in my funny money printing, I better make sure that gold is destabilized, crazy and unpredictable.

  • mario cavolo October 17, 2013, 9:50 am

    I’m confused…this from a MarketWatch commenter

    “chris pirro 10 hours ago
    I went on the Covered California Website put in a family of 3 making $ 35,000 dollars a year , the monthly premium was $ 987 with the government paying $ 980 per month meaning I would only pay $ 7 dollars per month ,

    ….so the Taxpayer will be paying $ 980 per month

    So then apparently some people will be paying much higher premiums and some people will be paying very little? I’m all for the “idea” of different sorts of national benefits if it could be reasonably implemented, which it isn’t. Meanwhile, this sounds like it is on graded rates based on income just like the income tax?…I’m for that too IF it could be reasonably and fairly implemented which history shows such things never are and favor the rich crony capitalists again and again.

    Forgive if I’m behind the curveball on having boned up on details of Obamacare coverage.

    Cheers, Mario

    • Craig October 17, 2013, 5:31 pm

      Mario,

      It’s not intended to work, it’s intended to blame the right for any failures and get more people hooked into the government teet. They will shock everyone with the cost of the insurance and then have the government subsidize this to keep people down, unmotivated (ie destroy small business startups) and keep enough people on the government reservation. And of course raise prices….those greedy small businesses.

    • Rick Ackerman October 17, 2013, 5:34 pm

      Broadly speaking, Mario, it is anyone who works who will pay more.

    • gary leibowitz October 18, 2013, 3:37 am

      Interesting piece on FOX NEWS of all places. They are a bit one-sided on their presentation so I wasn’t surprised when they introduced a man that claimed Obama Care caused his premiums to skyrocket. He was pretty calm about it, and when he explained that in his state if you make 94K or more your premium gets hiked by a large amount. He also stated that had he been making 93K his premium would have been less than his current policy. He didn’t understand the way such a sharp cutoff can be determined. he suggested a sliding scale. Needless to say the interview was short right after that comment. Yes there are winners and losers. The steep cutoff is bizarre to say the least. They definitely need to revamp this, but the intended tax is on the well off.

      I can see why the Republicans went nuts over it. In the 12th hour of funding the government, did you notice that McConnell got 3 billion pork for his state. Guess politics and reelection still trumps ideology.

      • redwilldanaher October 18, 2013, 2:09 pm

        Gary, “ideology” is a design feature.

        Are you a Chevy guy, a Ford guy or a Dodge guy?

        For me it’s Ford trucks and Dodge…

      • gary leibowitz October 19, 2013, 12:16 am

        Red, ideology for the established 2 parties certainly is a fashion statement that changes with the mood. But I must take issue if you really think the Tea Party has caved in. They haven’t. It is unfortunate that their fervor to make change using their ideology have clouded their best chance to succeed. They were in the drivers seat yet they decided to go for broke. Impatience and lack of compromise has most likely placed them in the dinosaur category. I suspect they will lose seats, not gain more. If they forced real change, and they could have, by chipping away at the pork, and used common sense adjustments that the average Joe could accept, their party would flourish. It now looks like the exact opposite will occur. I really did want change. I just didn’t see such rigid dramatic changes being accepted in Washington and outside. Small incremental changes would have been ideal. The woman in both parties seem to have it more under control and know the meaning of compromise. my hats off to them.

      • Redwilldanaher October 19, 2013, 4:35 pm

        The tea or any other party are of no consequence at this point. You’re living a fantasy if you think otherwise…

        Captured.
        Captured.
        Captured…

      • gary leibowitz October 19, 2013, 11:02 pm

        Tea Party captured? I am sure the speaker of the house will disagree with you. Do you really think the Republicans are too stupid to know when the polling is decidedly against them? Afraid they “captured” a wild untamed horse.

        Watch what they do in the next 3 months.

      • redwilldanaher October 20, 2013, 6:49 pm

        Gary, more than likely the republicans just helped to provide cover for the obamacare rollout fiasco. WWE Gary…

  • mario cavolo October 17, 2013, 6:01 am

    Oh I feel so warm and fuzzy toward them for being so nice and reasonable in their stewardship sacrifice…poor dears, they can barely afford the higher health insurance premiums?…that must be why they exempted themselves…incredible.

    “Associated Press….sixth year in a row lawmakers have opted not to get the annual cost-of-living pay increase …due under a 1989 law. Members of Congress make $174,000 a year.”

  • mario cavolo October 17, 2013, 5:48 am

    I read this thread and dare to have the urge to jump in with sensibly deduced arguments, but I find it impossible as the thread itself gets so deeply mired in politics, which is not a point of view I come from.

    Trying to look at the situation objectively leads to nothing good and respectable, to the fact that the legs holding up the table, virtually all of them are thoroughly broken and corrupt. Name one that isn’t.

    1. We have a body of leaders who aren’t leading and in fact are themselves trapped inside the monster they have complicitly formed. We have an endemic reverse robin hood scenario that those inflicting it upon us are doing their darnedest to divert the attention away what they are actually doing in the eyes of those they are fousting it upon. They are not legislating law which is good for the country, rather than for themselves and their wealthy cronies and it is now out of control, obviously. The wealth at the top is now far far far far far more concentrated than any normal, intelligent person realizes and can even comprehend. Is this a problem or a symptom of the problem? I would say first it was a symptom and has now become a huge part of the problem.

    While our leaders put 800,000 Americans out of work, they are still receiving their own salaries? We could go on and on only leading to vomiting. We are a captured people to that government. Lest I speak incorrectly, as I espoused to Craig above, every citizen of every country is a captive people to that government, including of course where I live, China. So be it, that’s not the problem, the problem is if and when that government deteriorates and starts harming a majority of its citizens in all the cute and tricky ways they manipulate to do so. It is a sad state of affairs that Americans are taught to hate China, when in fact jealousy would be the correct emotion to possess with how well the government here is improving the mass society, of course even with many imperfections and the rich also getting richer, but NOT at the expense of the rest of the country. I have a headache, I’ll go get my CT scan now for $55 here in Shanghai, a city now equal in status to any other typical international city. There are millions of American expats overseas including here, from entrepreneurs to top executives, watching this circus from afar is a blessing and a curse for it enabling us to see the situation more objectively and clearly. We are afraid and yet so happy to not be there.

    2. The healthcare system is corrupt AND broken, has been for years and gotten worse before Obamacare. When you go to visit a doctor for 15 minutes for their advice and are then sent a bill for $1000. OBVIOUSLY that billing is part of a system which is deeply corrupt and broken. It makes zero sense beyond the pale yet no one in healthcare arguments is talking about THAT.

    What is their solution? Instead of even addressing the broken, corrupt system FIRST, they have taken this broken, corrupt system and now asked every struggling American to pay for it to spread out the cost of the corrupt bill, so that the corrupt overbillers and rich companies can continue collecting these outrageous sums of money in a neat, tidy little system that is perfectly “normal and legal”, when in fact it is corrupt and broken. Price and cost don’t mean the same thing. On top of that, am I to understand that after the lawmakers passed/forced this bill upon us, they exempted themselves? Holy Guacamole Batman…

    3. Corporate corruption is rampant via their lovely system which allows them to pay little share of the tax burden they should be paying, at the same time generating record profits, at the same time with worker’s wages flat for ten years.

    3. Pharma corruption with actual marketing advertising on TV for drugs…only in America could they take a symptom, name it an official disease to sell their medication to treat it, and then be allowed empathetically scripted TV commercials to sell it. And who gets the bill? Again, the healthcare system that will be billed 40x what they should actually be billed, and now we all have to chip in to pay for it. The circle of corruption is complete and it can only lead to some sort of disaster. Ask your Doctor about Leviloxatramodium (I made that up) so that they can bill the insurance company $800 for a box of pills, and chip in your health insurance premiums and deductibles to help the corrupt system pay for it. Lovely.

    3. Wayne said it exactly right with “This government has been captured.” This is, unfortunately, a genuinely accurate statement. It has nothing at all to do with Dems or GOP, it has everything to do with both and all parties that are involved and in control. If you try to break it down to individual parties or even individual people, you end up with arguments like this thread which go nowhere, when in fact it is the entire root “system” which has been captured by the financiers and related special interest parties holding the cash which dictates all.

    Gary suggested somehow “we” are to blame. I could fall out of my chair reading that. “We” are captives to the system now and there is no getting out of it, as much as Wayne professes with hope that there is. I just realized that any official request for secession would end up tied up in the system, in the courts for a freakin’ decade or two as they are all now masters of gamesmanship leading us to hell. Try to get out and you will be crushed one way or the other. Push it too far and something extreme will happen and then the entire system will go into a domino collapse. We are seeing that childish gamesmanship now, all of which underscores that the problem is now the broken system. Even the members themselves, Boehner is captured, Reid is captured, see what I mean? Even they themselves are stuck within the monsters with which they have to work with, regardless of their being complicit in its creation. They are inside the system and so self-serving to try to preserve their own world. Lord knows I’m not defending any of them.

    I am trying to write something helpful, something constructive and I realize I am not, I can’t. There’s little to say or do against how far they have separated their world from the other real world. And at the same time, they even create the illusion that you are free to try to do something about it, so, go ahead and bang your head against the wall cuz it feels good when you stop. I choose instead to focus on doing my best to be a happy, big fish with a lovely family in a little pond that I hope offers me some protection from getting sucked into the vortex that does certainly not have my best interests in mind. We are in the matrix which unfortunately is not a good matrix, what a shame. Within it, find your safe haven as best you can.

    Cheers, Mario

    • Redwilldanaher October 17, 2013, 1:47 pm

      “We are in the matrix which unfortunately is not a good matrix, what a shame. Within it, find your safe haven as best you can.”

      I think that’s right Mario.

      I’m not sure how secession would play out. Might be as difficult to forecast as the hyperinflation or not scenario that gets argued about periodically here at Ricks.

      Its always been my feeling that public opinion / arrogance might work in favor of a southern state trying to escape from the influence of Mordor. The elitists that live outside of the South have a strong sense of superiority with respect to southerners. I’m sure you’ve heard something to the effect of “…bunch of redneck, in bred…” type of comments. I think the “tolerant” ones among us would be happy to push Ole Miss or ‘Bama or SC out the door. Of course tptb can’t afford to lose debt slaves so they will fight like hell but at the very least if the issue is forced, the black hand of the totalirianist jailors will be visible to all that care to see it for what it really is.

      Saw something the other day that was funny and ironically depressing at the same time. It read like something to this effect: the american patriots of the revolution were freer than you are today.

      Let’s see Gary and Jill argue that. Let’s see Jill blame that on one “party”. The real reason why it is hopeless is divide and conquer as so many have recently noted even here at Rick’s. There is a reason why The Walking Dead is setting ratings records. We are surrounded by zombies.

    • gary leibowitz October 18, 2013, 4:04 am

      Your doom and gloom scenario:
      1 – Medical costs. People on Medicare pay a tiny fraction for their service, which by the way is far superior to China’s. If you doubt it, check out where people that can afford medical treatment go. I haven’t heard anyone traveling to China lately. Are you really comparing China’s advancement to ours? No contest. They do know how to steal our patents very well. They even know how to invite American companies to “help” them, and then steal them blind. So much for a one-sided love fest view of China.
      2 – Government is of the people and for the people. I guess the 30 or so Tea Party members weren’t a direct result of citizen frustration? Really? In fact these 30 have controlled the house very well. Perhaps you don’t read how they stranglehold the old Republican establishment. I guess you haven’t seen every single stoppage of government done by these 30 small fries. I wonder what you have been watching? It certainly wasn’t done by the “established” two crony parties. But like everyone here you want change to occur immediately.

      Sorry but to compare a fledgling dictatorial regime to a very old, powerful, and established democracy is silly. Give China 50 years to really screw up. Their ability to absorb their “ghost cities” and “black market” trading might be working for now, but with their current explosive growth, I can assure you they will fall into the same trap all big nations have. Just like every big industrialized country does. I am surprised you even try to compare the two.

      You really want low cost for things but also expect us to remain a free enterprise? Maybe in China that can work, since they know nothing else. I would not trade my freedoms and court system with yours for any amount of money. Do they still execute people on the spot?

      • mario cavolo October 18, 2013, 5:08 am

        Hi Gary, cool!….you’ve obviously asked to be blasted back and that’s a welcome invitation, that’s why we’re here.

        fledgling dictatorial regime….that’s funny, I’ll take a monarch or centrally planned govt that massively improves its society and economy over any broken democratic govt any day of the week. Its NOT the form of govt that matters, they all have pros and cons…secondly, as many already realize, American is now NOT an established democracy, the laws at the deepest level have been clearly changed, not to mention the system is obviously not running in the spirit of which it was intended, it is a mockery of democracy…

        ….can’t argue with you at all about the stealing stuff…China definitely often doesn’t play nice, definitely no one sided love fest.

        your freedoms and court system aren’t just as bad in their own way?…even worse? What happens to white collar criminals who steal millions and billions in America…actually they don’t even go to jail anymore, they are ignored and protected by their cronies with the media and system you so prefer turning a blind eye. In China, steal a few million, get caught, get executed and its in the headlines. In Singapore, throw gum on the street, $500. Tough shit, you don’t like it, live elsewhere. The law is the law. Its not a question of whether I agree or disagree with capital punishment, I’m not interested in being an activist in the political system under which I happen to be living, no matter what country I live in. I leave that to others.

        Every conversation I have with an expat expresses their dismay at the idea of moving back to America, even when in our hearts, we would like to, including myself, the place has become a mockery of what it was, sad and frightening, regardless of either political party. RFID chips in elementary school badges and credit cards, on and on, yea, freedom.

        Medical care here is fine, I’ve used Chinese hospitals for fourteen years with services priced 50x nearer to cost where they belong. However, no doubt on this one, the level of professional doctors is far less consistent here, improving rapidly.

        Cheers, Mario

      • redwilldanaher October 18, 2013, 2:06 pm

        “I would not trade my freedoms and court system with yours for any amount of money.”

        But you would and have traded them for much less: Lies

      • gary leibowitz October 19, 2013, 4:21 am

        Mario, China can change its policy on a dime. Who will argue. As for living the good life, it is no different in any poor country when you have the money and means to do so. Are you suggesting your financial means is equal to the masses there? I can easily enjoy a life in Mexico, Central and South America, along jungle, beaches, cheap labor just by using Social Security and perhaps a small savings. That doesn’t mean you don’t sacrifice by doing so. in fact most people that try these ventures fail to stay.

        I heard Tito was a benign dictator as was Chavez. Not interested in living on the whim of an individual or group that can change policy overnight. You find it comforting that they deal with severe justice, no codling. I am sure you are assured everyone accused and executed were guilty. Right. Never had one of your expatriates in trouble? Please don’t give me the line how wonderful it is there. China’s humanitarian accolades seem missing to put it mildly. Who exactly are their close friends. The who’s who of psychopaths and ruthless murderers. Are they really better than us?

        As for medical, no contest. Hit 65 and the state takes care of you so well that you can see dozens of specialist with nothing out of pocket. I know from personal experience. my father is 91. You name the specialist he sees them. In fact he sees on average one to two doctors a week. We are going broke specifically because it works so well, for the seniors that have only put in a fraction of what they get out of it. Yup it is at a cost, but if you look up the Medicare system’s management you would find it hard to disagree. Speaking of my father, he recently fell on concrete. Took him to the ER of a major NYC hospital. Ambulance came at 2:30, got to the ER at 3. In the 4 hours he was there the following was done. Nurse took vitals. Intern diagnosed symptoms. Doctors took Cat Scan, X ray, stitched his cuts, determined his ear drum was punctured, and released by 7.

        I also find it peculiar that when Clinton was in office there was no anger over deficits or destroying the dollar, etc… Was it so long ago that we can’t even remember the good old days? I dare anyone to say that at his peak people assumed we were awash in debt and would never get out from under it. In fact I would argue that it was exactly because of the balance sheet that politicians went spend crazy. Repubs wanted to bankrupt social programs, taking a book from R. Reagan against Russia. Dems wanted any excuse to add to the social give-aways and at the same time give corporate welfare.

        We are a spoiled bunch. We have always whined at things that outsiders consider luxuries. Perhaps there actually will come a time, like the Great Depression, when we fall into deep despair. It isn’t here yet folks. I know most are rooting for it, but since impatience runs rampant here I guess all you can do is pretend it is already here. in fact every single time I come here, for years now, I see another piece explaining why we are being wiped off the face of the earth today. I dare Rick to arbitrarily pick a date out of the hat and read all the blog’s topic of the day/week.

      • mario cavolo October 20, 2013, 7:22 am

        Hi Gary,

        Your anti-China slant is nauseating but common.

        “Are you suggesting your financial means is equal to the masses there?”

        No is the answer whereas Yes is the answer you assume?…most of rising middle class of 300,000,000 of them have MORE than me including mortgage free homes, zero credit card debt and new cars paid for cash.

        “Are they better than us?” No, but they’re certainly not any worse either, just bad in different ways.

        “A group that can change policy overnight.” That would be the U.S. you’re talking about as to the best of factual knowledge the rule and law of the former Republic has been gutted and replaced by dictatorial regime stripping you of your rights. China meanwhile is deftly executing its next consecutive 5 Year Plan which it drafts and executes and doesn’t let get stuck in a committee and special interests battle for five years while the country crumbles.

        “You find it comforting that they deal with severe justice, no coddling.” I am sure you are assured everyone accused and executed were guilty. Right. Never had one of your expatriates in trouble?

        Yes, it is comforting and there are no guns here, that’s comforting too, even low income neighborhoods are safe to live in with security guards at the gate of every apt complex, only at luxury complexes in the U.S.

        Meanwhile, every expat in trouble here got in trouble because they did something wrong, that’s why they got in trouble. No sympathy from me toward them. I don’t know one single foreigner who has gotten kicked out or jailed without a reason.

        In the U.S. everything for the common people seems a crime these days. Leon the street programmer was ARRESTED for sleeping on a park bench last week. WHY wasn’t he just told by the cop to “move along pal, you can’t sleep here?” A woman was given LIFE in prison for allowing a minor boy to touch her bare breast, a senior citizens heckling Kerry at a campaign luncheon in Florida last year was ARRESTED, not asked to leave, not escorted from the room, ARRESTED. I’m a professional speaker, I don’t think my hecklers need to be arrested, eh? Google/youtube it all IN the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA…the land of the dictatorial regime like China is? I gotta laugh and cry too because its terrible.

        “Please don’t give me the line how wonderful it is there.” But it is in myriad ways far better here today than in the U.S. and I’m sorry that’s hard to swallow. A government vastly steadily improving the society, no guns, safe streets even in low income areas, lower prices, cheap good healthcare, traditional family system with respect for parents and teachers and the elderly. But yes, it will get worse over the coming decades as China IMPORTS the western ways of higher divorce, less respect, materialism, isn’t that delightful?

        Sorry it bothers you I am describing China this way, I can’t change reality, only observe and share what it is, I focus more on rule of reality rather than exception, a very important point, and forgive my sarcasm today but again Gary, the anti-China thing is nauseating and ignorant to any foreigner who’s spent time here.

        132 U.S. companies are on the Fortune Global 500 list. Now in the second place and climbing, 95 companies on that list are from China. So I highly recommend people start perceiving China far more realistically and practically and with far less anti-China emotional bias looking forward, is a darn good idea, here’s one example why…

        “Out of 435 [U.S.] congressional districts, 249 of them had higher growth in exports to China last year than any other market in the world, according to the USCBC’s “Congressional District Exports to China” report…China wants what we produce. But…the U.S. lags behind the Europeans and Japanese in the Chinese market. As this trend continues, hating China will be harder for politicians.” Forbes Magazine Aug 2013, Why Hating China is Futile, Kenneth Rapoza

        Cheers, Mario

  • Jill October 17, 2013, 2:16 am

    Now here’s a guy who knows what he’s talking about, John Fugelsang:

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151632896820493&set=a.61232960492.81458.7292655492&type=1&theater

    • DK October 17, 2013, 3:20 am

      Whoa, sorry Jill, horrible example. You still believe this charlatan is better than Bush! They are a cut of the same mold.

      I have a couple of questions for you regarding Clinton. Do you know the names Ron Brown, Charles Ruff, and Tony Moser mean anything to you? What happened to them, and when? What did the autopsy reveal about Mr. Brown? What were the connections of these 3 to Billy? James McDougal?
      Regarding Billy’s economy, do you give no credit whatsoever to something called “the Internet?” You know that thing Al Gore (DARPA) invented? Hm, I wonder what that did for business/commerce?

      By the way, where are we on Afghanistan?

      What about the so-called “death panels” in O-care? “It is a lie plain and simple.” I thought they were fiction? I guess you haven’t read any of the bill.
      What about illegals in that bill? How about being able to keep your doctors and/or insurance? Cheaper costs you say? No federal dollars to fund abortions?? LMAO. Still saying all of that with a straight face?

      What’s that famous Dubya quote? Something to the effect of “either you’re with us or you’re against us.” Guess that still applies.

      Baaaahhhhh

      • Jill October 17, 2013, 3:31 am

        Wow, so some Democrats have their faults. Which I have already stated myself repeatedly. But then, as you admitted, you do not read my posts before responding to them, so how would you know? And there are also plenty of false conspiracy theories about Dems, all of which you are apparently familiar with.

        I love how you quote me about things I never said. Like “No federal dollars to fund abortions.” I never said anything about that subject, either pro or con. It’s fascinating to hear about your fantasy Jill and all the things she said. Has nothing to do with me, however.

        Funny how you say both parties are equally bad, but all your criticisms and conspiracy theories are about Democrats, not Republicans. I wonder why. Actually I don’t.

        As for death panels, here are the facts from factcheck.org. But I know you are allergic to facts, so feel free to ignore them, as usual.
        http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/palin-vs-obama-death-panels/

      • DK October 17, 2013, 3:35 am

        No Jill, if you keep in line with context, you’d know I was repeating Obama, verbatim. You know, the Joe Wilson incident.
        Did I not bring up 9-11 ad nauseum the other day? Watch was that on? What about the Patriot Act? I think I mentioned that too. I’m pretty sure I’ve mentioned Salem Bin Laden in the past too.
        Keep trying though, it’s pretty funny to watch you embarrass yourself.
        Did I not say “so-called” “death panels?” Of course that phrasing isn’t in the bill. LOL

      • DK October 17, 2013, 3:49 am

        LMAO!
        I’m still very interested to know how someone can shoot himself in the back of the head with a shotgun, TWICE!

        Considering the situation, thats one helluva “conspiracy theory.”

        Bringing dense/denial to a whole new level.

      • DK October 17, 2013, 4:07 am

        Oh and apparently you can’t follow context. “No federal dollars to fund abortions” is something OBAMA said, VERBATIM, in pointing out what he termed a lie.

    • DK October 17, 2013, 3:26 am

      I’d love to see your reply. Beyond that, I’m done.

      • Jill October 17, 2013, 3:44 am

        So instead of making a point, you are claiming, falsely, to be quoting Obama verbatim. Your posts make no sense– and then you claim I am embarrassing myself because I can’t make sense of them. And then you are talking about “so-called” “death panels” by which you mean something, and you expect me to guess what that is that you mean.

        Well, I do not expect myself to guess what you mean by all these nonsensical things you write. You can go ahead and expect someone else to make sense of your disjointed meaningless posts, and insult them if they can’t make heads or tails out of them. I am done here.

        &&&&&&&

        Let’s hope you can keep your word, Jill. RA

      • DK October 17, 2013, 4:02 am

        Palin dubbed them “death panels,” I said “so-called,” as in falsely termed, or a term that is used commonly to refer to something. And NO I am not falsely quoting Obama, he said “that is a lie plain and simple.” Only, it’s not a lie, as they completely exist, particularly in the situation he described during that speech right before Joe Wilson yelled out “you lie!” Just like the other elements he denied in that speech. He has done a whole lotta lying, just like Bush before him, Clinton before him, Bush Sr. before him, and so on.

        Does that help spell it out for you?

        Ya know, gravity is a theory, but you won’t see me contesting that. So is the 9-11 Commission report, actually. Yes, I completely believe that powerful people do “conspire” to do things. I think it’s foolish not to believe that. You don’t think it’s more than odd that 4 people directly tied to Clinton’s impeachment suddenly experienced highly unusual deaths? Right when he was about to be tried?

        Not believing in something and not WANTING to believe in something are completely different.

        Of course we will never KNOW any of this, thanks to the confidentiality of everything in and about our government. So much for Barry’s “transparency” too.

        Again, keep embarrassing yourself.

  • DK October 17, 2013, 12:15 am

    Well, this should be useful for multiple reasons. Particularly… what’re those buzz words Barry likes to use? Oh yea, “political posturing.”

    http://fox13now.com/2013/10/14/utah-families-on-food-stamps-could-be-cut-off-soon/

    Get ready for “Rodney King style riots.” Hope you’re paying attention Walmart.

  • Craig October 17, 2013, 12:00 am

    DK I am going to answer for Jill:

    Bush is worse. Fox lies. Republicans suck. Libertarians are republicans. It the tea party’s fault if anything Obama my master does to help the 99%. The republicans only help the 1%. Tea party loves Goldman Sachs. Bush is worse. Fox lies. Republicans suck. Libertarians are republicans. It the tea party’s fault if anything Obama my master does to help the 99%. The republicans only help the 1%. Tea party loves Goldman Sachs. Bush is worse. Fox lies. Republicans suck. Libertarians are republicans. It the tea party’s fault if anything Obama my master does to help the 99%. The republicans only help the 1%. Tea party loves Goldman Sachs. Bush is worse. Fox lies. Republicans suck. Libertarians are republicans. It the tea party’s fault if anything Obama my master does to help the 99%. The republicans only help the 1%. Tea party loves Goldman Sachs. Bush is worse. Fox lies. Republicans suck. Libertarians are republicans. It the tea party’s fault if anything Obama my master does to help the 99%. The republicans only help the 1%. Tea party loves Goldman Sachs. Bush is worse. Fox lies. Republicans suck. Libertarians are republicans. It the tea party’s fault if anything Obama my master does to help the 99%. The republicans only help the 1%. Tea party loves Goldman Sachs. Bush is worse. Fox lies. Republicans suck. Libertarians are republicans. It the tea party’s fault if anything Obama my master does to help the 99%. The republicans only help the 1%. Tea party loves Goldman Sachs. Bush is worse. Fox lies. Republicans suck. Libertarians are republicans. It the tea party’s fault if anything Obama my master does to help the 99%. The republicans only help the 1%. Tea party loves Goldman Sachs. Bush is worse. Fox lies. Republicans suck. Libertarians are republicans. It the tea party’s fault if anything Obama my master does to help the 99%. The republicans only help the 1%. Tea party loves Goldman Sachs. Bush is worse. Fox lies. Republicans suck. Libertarians are republicans. It the tea party’s fault if anything Obama my master does to help the 99%. The republicans only help the 1%. Tea party loves Goldman Sachs. Bush is worse. Fox lies. Republicans suck. Libertarians are republicans. It the tea party’s fault if anything Obama my master does to help the 99%. The republicans only help the 1%. Tea party loves Goldman Sachs. Bush is worse. Fox lies. Republicans suck. Libertarians are republicans. It the tea party’s fault if anything Obama my master does to help the 99%. The republicans only help the 1%. Tea party loves Goldman Sachs.

    • Redwilldanaher October 17, 2013, 1:30 am

      Gary and Jill could be making fortunes in other pursuits.

      Hedge fund guests on CNBubbleC? Don’t laugh, Who’s better at talking their book?

      Political spinmeisters for democorp.? Who’s better at muddying the opposition’s points, evading direct questions, changing the subject, spewing talking point lies and in the end, staying on propagandisitc message?

      Future possibilities in the USSA as the apparatchik’s apparatchik?…

      • DK October 17, 2013, 2:47 am

        RWD, I don’t know who’s the best but Sebelius has been pretty damn good lately. She even performed one on the Daily Show recently.

      • Jill October 17, 2013, 3:12 am

        Who’s better at muddying the opposition’s points, evading direct questions, changing the subject, spewing talking point lies and in the end, staying on propagandisitc message?

        You are, Redwilldanaher. You get first prize in this category. Congratulations.

    • Jill October 17, 2013, 2:28 am

      Wow, Craig. I am impressed. You can actually cut and past something over and over, in order to attempt to irritate someone whose points you can not refute with facts. Good for you.

      Soros is a less bad guy than Cruz. That’s for sure. There are no perfect guys in politics or in funding politics. Politics is like plumbing. It can’t be done without getting your hands quite dirty. It’s a matter of awful vs. less bad.

      Oh, I forgot. I am supposed to think all Dems are perfect, and I don’t. Sorry about that. But I am sure you will ignore this, just as you have before, and continue to assume that I think Dems are all perfect. I totally trust you, and most others here, to ignore what I say, and to go on with your canned talking points and your canned pictures of me– neither of which correspond to reality.

      • Craig October 17, 2013, 5:18 pm

        I am impressed you figured that out….I am sure you had to tea the entire post twice to figure that out. Miss Jill that was to a lot of us because it was pretty close to the truth.

        You have no facts ever just opinions and because our true facts don’t line up with your opinion that makes us wrong. All drone liberals work this way (rules for radicals) we know the tactic well because that’s all you have.

        I would love to know how many lurkers have had their minds changed from the awake people on this board and how many you have convinced…I am pretty sure you have convinced zero and have only helped us wake up more people.

        I can’t believe you actually answered that exactly as I assumed, I knew you were a drone but really that bad huh? “Soros is less bad than Cruz”. That is so funny on so many levels. You obviously know nothing about Soros yet everything you spew (cut and paste) is from Soros controls “media” sources. If you had legit issues I would give you a little credit but all you do is spew the lefts evil right winger of the day. I am sure you think Buffet is just as clean as the driven snow, shows what a blind eye you have. People like you allow tyrants to take over.

  • AWB October 16, 2013, 11:07 pm

    The current economic conditions facing all generations are contributed to at least in part by questionable monetary and fiscal policy.

    To illustrate, with the Federal Reserve Bank pumping $85 billion worth of asset purchases a month into the upper economy, one would think the trickle down effect would do more than barely keep the economy afloat.

    Businesses are still wary of investing too much and afraid of hiring too many new employees. Federal spending is unsustainable on its present course and Main Street dollars are losing purchasing power at a time when wage growth has been challenged.

  • Aint No October 16, 2013, 10:28 pm

    The analysis is essentially correct; but the conclusion is slightly off. It is the period from 1950-2000 that was the Singularity with its hall mark; a big tent, consuming, middle class in the US and in post Marshall plan Europe. As Springsteen sang, those jobs are gone boys and they ain’t coming back . . .

    We’re objectively back to pre WWII conditions and a new system is going to have be built up around the public’s needs, not the needs of Finance. For starters, we could try real competition between the Public and Private sectors—like say Obamacare with a real public option— instead of serving our masters by calling common sense socialism and pretending we have competition within the Private sector alone. All this Hayek crap is for people who’s sex partners have just left them.

  • DK October 16, 2013, 8:50 pm
    • Jill October 16, 2013, 10:51 pm

      I thought that the wrongdoings of big corporate crony capitalists didn’t matter to you folks– just the “leeching” of those “lazy takers” who recieve food stamps while they are out of work and looking for their next job, a tiny percentage of whom recently jumped at the chance to load up their carts at Wal-Mart with some extra food.

      Haliburton is one of your big worshipped “job creator” Republican Libertarian beneficiaries of government largess– part of the military industrial complex which has taken such huge amounts of your tax money, been caught committing fraud a number of different times, and, at the same time, has campaigned for “smaller goverment.” These are the folks you worship and gladly support financially through your taxes, remember? It’s the poor who you don’t think should even have food.

      • Redwilldanaher October 16, 2013, 11:32 pm

        Jill, you sound like something from Westworld…

      • DK October 16, 2013, 11:35 pm

        “Jill,” I’m not sure where you ever got the idea that I’m a Republican or a Republican/Libertarian (whatever the heck that means) or whatever you want to cry about. Further, when did I EVER say anything positive about Halliburton??? I think you’re missing the underlying theme, again (shocking). You and your cohorts are spinning out of control. That’s understandable though, considering the circumstances. Did I not post the above link with JPM/EBT? I believe I’ve posted enough about Monsanto, GE, GS, Deutsche Bank, Microsoft, Google/NSA, etc. No more explanations needed.
        I don’t affiliate myself with any political parties and I try to put the blame where blame is due. I don’t pay much attention to political labels, I prefer to watch their actions. People can take their parties and shove em’ as far as I’m concerned. Both members of the 2 party – 1 headed machine have had control of this country for 150 years and look where it got us. You can go back to your political reality TV now and kowtow.

        By the way, what happened to the EPA during this event? They got the pimp hand by BP, how’d that happen? Didn’t the EPA argue that there were safer ways and alternatives to Corexit? Where was your commander in chief during all of this? Oh that’s right, he was being a good little puppet.

        Once again, I said it above and I’ll say it here. They are all complicit, you cannot have it both ways. Do “area- wide leasing,” followed by Outer Continental Shelf Deepwater Royalty Relief Act (DWRR) mean anything to you?

        Keep following the herd.

      • Craig October 17, 2013, 12:16 am

        And Warren buffet and soros are squeaky clean because they liberals and lick ice cream cones everytime they are on CNBC.

        So is Soros a good guy Jill?

  • Benjamin October 16, 2013, 7:23 pm

    Okay, there hasn’t been much comment on the “protectionism of borders” remark made by chindit13. So I thought I’d invite a guest speaker to say a few words…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSejgZOe_nE

    Indeed, unabombers waving their flags around. Don’t want to fix their own country, but want to come to and shape ours. Just the kind we need here!

    And why do so many little-l “libertarians”, RINOs, and other marxist-friendlies always leave out the big gripe of these invading aliens, which is that they believe that they have a birthright to the lands that the U.S. “stole from them” long ago? But if anyone rightly gets defensive over all this, they’re only “whining about where they were born”.

    Double-standard much, “freedom” lovers?

    This isn’t a labor shortage issue. We don’t even have a labor shortage here. Rather, Latin America has an overabundance of no to low skilled and and “overage” of skilled people who can’t find a decent job and/or wage. Why do we have to solve that problem for them when we have enough of the same problem here? Better question…

    What does relieving even more failed countries mean for the people doing the “solving”? Gee, I wonder!

  • Redwilldanaher October 16, 2013, 3:58 am

    Gary, the government has been captured. Are you arguing that we want to be captors of ourselves because we are they in your mind? Sure, you and Jill and your ilk want that but most of the rest of us just wish to be left alone. For god sakes, I will point out yet again that even Rolling Stone has figured this out. As someone that fancies themselves as being ahead of the curve, you really have an incalculable amount of catch up to play…

    • gary leibowitz October 16, 2013, 4:15 am

      If you want to be left alone live in the wilderness and live off that land. Do so without requesting government permission.

      Left alone? Great imaginary concept. How do you suppose that would work? No taxes, no infrastructure, no work, auto, safety, medical rules or intervention. Live free! Barter, hunt and gather, survival of the fittest. No scientific progress, extension of life span, extension of leisure time, extension of our species beyond its natural evolution.

      Get back to nature! Avoid crowds, avoid people with different ideas. You want to be left alone…..

      • Craig October 17, 2013, 12:26 am

        It’s better to dream that than to dream to live off the government teet your whole helpless life. How is it to go through life with no ambition or self respect, just wanting hand outs and are jealous of successful people while you put insiders on a pedestal because they are liberal (buffet, soros etc).

    • Troll October 16, 2013, 5:27 am

      You, Red, are using the Rolling Stone as a “source?” Really?

      • Redwilldanaher October 16, 2013, 12:39 pm

        Do stick around, we could use a court jester ’round here…

      • gary leibowitz October 16, 2013, 5:30 pm

        When people like you rail against the evil of governments and their allegiance to corporations, I find I amusing how you squirm away from explaining the wasteful entitlements. Surely if this government is an open book you could explain why they also waste so much on the masses. You yourself acknowledged just how many dead beats there are in America. So which is it, a government bent on lining its pockets with deep money patrons, or one where they wish to placate the voters? I guess you still haven’t figured out the answer yet. Not a hard question, but one that requires a rigid one-sided mindset to change. To this clown the answer is so simple, they cater to everyone all the time, with no personal consequence. As a politician you just can’t lose when you pass out the candy to everyone.

        Except when people become angry enough to force change. We already saw the great job the change party (Tea) has done, and will continue to do. Here we go again lynching the weakest group. It does give one satisfaction that something is being done. Watch what happens when the elite sit back and enjoy the show thinking it will benefit them in the long run. They seem to think if you destroy the middle class they themselves will not be hurt. Live and learn.

        SPX to 1750 – 1770 perhaps?

      • gary leibowitz October 16, 2013, 5:42 pm

        The Ryan Plan has gone nowhere and his leadership has been missing. The main plan of his calls for entitlement cuts and tax cuts. I wonder how that math works out? Yeah that will balance the budget by shifting money spent on entitlement to the wealthiest individuals and corporation. The same groups that are already enjoying the largest wealth disparity ever. But lets fix this mess by going after the lazy. Oh yeah, he also endorses the immigration bill. I guess even he sees a huge government revenue increase with that one.

        “Ryan in the past pushed for deep tax cuts and a plan to partially turn Medicare into a voucher system for future recipients. At the same time, he has been willing to part ways with his party’s leaders, supporting an eventual pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants. “

  • gary leibowitz October 16, 2013, 3:18 am

    If government is not a reflection of its citizens at the economic extremes than how do you explain away FDR’s policies AFTER the Great Depression and the TEA PARTIES advances in politics today?

    Cam and others just can’t grasp my very complicated message.

    We are the government. Unless you think all voters are discouraged to vote, or cheated out of a vote? In fact the minorities had a huge role to play in electing this President. The demographics suggest that the white working class with no college education will be disenfranchised worse than the poor have going forward.

    We as individuals, and as a government, given the opportunity, will lean towards greed and less empathy. Simple proposition that have been studied and verified over and over again.

    Extremes bring on change. Lax laws and rules turn to stringent ones. That is a simple solution to the problem. Unfortunately since over spending and over indulgence to both the elite 5 present and drowning 50 percent has put us in such debt, the answers will be a mix of confused lashing out until a final solution becomes known. As in the Civil War and the lashing out concerning conscription during the Civil War, NYC decided to riot and lynch blacks. Surely had they been able to express their frustration correctly they would have blamed the rich who could buy their way out of serving. Today we blame government for too much codling to the less fortunate. It will only be after the government responds by reducing these program costs that the majority of people will understand just how much of it helped their standard of living. I await the backlash of such social cuts. It will come simply because the public will vote in representatives to enact such policy. This type of mistake will be costly but needed since most people use personal experience to guide their actions. In the end though there will be a rebuilding, just like the 1930’s where the balancing act will focus on the elite, instead of the majority.

    • Craig October 17, 2013, 1:06 am

      Bread and circuses along with over extended wars always bring down an Empire. Societies always act like you liberals act before they collapse and a new age of conservatism and strict religion fallows. Just what you want Gary. Fortunately for you, you will not survive the dollar collapse to see the new ultra conservative very religious USA. The government teet will be dry and you don’t know how skin a buck or even get water from anywhere but a faucet so you will perish from lack of twinkies and super big gulps. Your the type that would die of thirst next to a river because you couldn’t find a Pepsi. Is this puritan future something I am looking forward to, no but that is the course of man over and over for the survivors of every empire that gets too liberal and tries to appease the masses that feel they are entitled.

  • Redwilldanaher October 16, 2013, 1:31 am

    Jill, are you trying to out-absurd Gary this week?

    I’m glad to see that Craig can continue to muster the energy…

    Why are the cities that are democorp machine controlled crumbling beyond repair while hemorraghing tax base?

    Your message seems to be that dependency should be the goal.

    I’d love to pull up a lawn chair, throw a few dogs on my smokey joe, pour some bourbon and sit back and watch from afar as you and Gary “govern” yourselves into hopeless despair, one idiotically short-sighted, hate-filled step at a time…

    • Benjamin October 16, 2013, 2:50 am

      Hi, Red

      Ever get the feeling that Gill and jary leibowitz are one and the same? Come to think of it…

      Back in 2008, there was a plain old ‘gary’ that used to come here for the sole purpose of heckling Rick. If I recall, plain old gary wound up making a pretty insulting antisemetic remark and got booted. Then, not long after, gary _leibowitz_ showed up. Hmmm… Ya think?

      I don’t know if he is, but if so, I’ve always suspected as much. I’ve also seen stuff like this happen in numerous other forums, so I wouldn’t put it past him. Or her, as the plain old gary jillowitz may be.

      &&&&&&&

      Now that you mention it, I’ve never seen Gary and Jill together in the same place. RA

      • Troll October 16, 2013, 3:34 am

        You suspect as much because suspicion is all you have.

      • Redwilldanaher October 16, 2013, 3:49 am

        You may be onto something Ben. I’ve always wondered why Gary morphed into Gary Liebfraumilch. I missed him getting booted, thought he just re registered. I asked him, in so many words, how he could possibly and idefatigably, argue for statism knowing a. How awful it turns out in a general sense (see ussr and nazi germany) and b. How it was even worse for those that suffered in those countries if they were of jewish heritage given his surname, as all Leibowitz’s that I’ve known have been jewish. I grew up in NJ by the way which has a significant jewish population. Well, Gary just strolled right by if memory serves. Issued his patented nonresponse, which as you know, is his M O…

        A mystery it shall remain…

      • gary leibowitz October 16, 2013, 4:00 am

        Sounds like another 9/11 conspiracy. Rick already knows the answer to this. It is convenient and dismissive of you to conclude your voice is of the majority. You ignore the poles/votes and declare yet more conspiracies to justify that sort of thinking. Guess what, you are the minority full of fear, paranoia, and refuse to believe government can screw up as individuals do. As the pain and injustices intensify you will get your lynching mob. Who do you think lynching mobs go after? Hint: Look at the riots we had in NYC during the Civil War for answers.

      • original Dave October 16, 2013, 5:11 am

        You may be onto something… he’s not listed in LinkedIn, where many tech/programmers especially working in the Wall St. area which he alluded to in the past comingle. He seems to have time to write much here, not common for busy NYC techs or their management. A quick check of Goldman Sachs only has a Michelle in the directory. He did raise a reddish flag last week with an “if” there is an afterlife comment, though rare, I do know a couple of NYC jews raised with no religious background by atheists. He seems to be of NYC metro temperament so should be able to relate something of a jewish nature, bar mitzvah stories, his Hebrew name, some famous deli names, any fav foods, fill in the blanks – bagels and ___, ba-ruch a-tah ______ , which condiment s/never go on a pastrami sandwich, what could prevent a Jew from being buried in a Jewish cemetery?, which ethnic food are Jews known to eat on Christmas and why?

    • Benjamin October 16, 2013, 7:13 pm

      Well, hardy har har, Rick! 🙂

      But in defense of my comment, I say: A dunk tank clown by any other name…

      @ original Dave: All I really know about gl/j know is that Styx did a song about him/her!

  • Jill October 15, 2013, 10:31 pm

    Gary, I just replied to a post of yours up above, pointing to how Tea Partiers do use their energy to make the governent more efficient– more efficient at giving benefits of all kinds to crony capitalists.

    Mava, I am sure that the party of Bush, that led us into an expensive bloody war in Iraq ,based on phony weapons of mass destruction, can find plenty of ways to kill more Americans. They can find ways to kill as many more Americans as it is profitable for the military industrial complex and other crony capitalists to kill. They will not need to use the Affordable Care Act to do so. In fact medical care and costs for the general population will likely improve with the ACA. And it will help the majority of small businesses. See article below.

    http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financial/2013/10/14/131014ta_talk_surowiecki

    Republican propaganda is very expert. But it’s not surprising, since that expensive propaganda is financed by super wealthy crony capitalist welfare queen mega-corporations, while Dems are mostly financially supported financially by a struggling middle class that gets far fewer government benefits than cronies do.

    Although the Democrats have their problems, they are definitely the less corrupt of the 2 parties. But you wouldn’t know that from the expensive crony capitalist propaganda that we are surrounded with, and that almost all the people on this board devoutly believe.

    • mava October 16, 2013, 5:10 pm

      I don’t share your optimism. I have already read some information furnished to me by the people responsible for finding a health insurance for me, and it is all very ugly.

      Suddenly, your great promise turns very very sour, when I read that the cost of my coverage will be affected by MY INCOME (very very negatively) and that no, I will not be eligible for any discounts or tax credits!

      Thus, everything this president promises is a lie and he is a liar. My insurance was better and cheaper before than it is going to be now. Why did I need this change? I don’t care if someone isn’t getting an insurance, just as, obviously and evidently, none of the beneficiaries of this Obamacare are concerned with my costs.

      They give no rat’s ass about my costs. They lie that we are united somehow. They only care about their costs, while pointing at me, and while stealing my funds.

      The difference between I and them is this: I do not force them into any choices. But they do everything through physical force.

    • Craig October 16, 2013, 11:32 pm

      Bushes bloody war in Iraq from phony weapons of mass destruction??????

      The same war Obama won’t end? He just changes the border of baghdad so that a base is outside of that so he can proclaim he has moved troops out of Baghdad. All of this president to president to help the bankers and the military industrial complex…replacing troops with $200k/Yr contractors on the US taxpayers dime.

      How about the same phony weapons of mass destruction Obama can’t pull off in Syria where he says we need to aid the “rebels” which are admittedly Al-quada, they same people that are going to get us. And he lies and said Syria did it when it was the rebels that we gave the WMD to that did it to set up Syria to clear an invasion.

      Would you please stop shoveling the Bush is worse then Obama and realize they are not only the same but are/were working towards the same goal and people. By constantly blaming Bush to distract from Obama all your are doing is helping the 1%….it’s actually the 0.0000857% but I forget that you are the tic tac toe master and we are discussing 3D multilevel chess.

  • mava October 15, 2013, 9:27 pm

    Benjamin,

    Check out how British NHS system saves itself from unnecessarily caring for 42,000 patients a year by simply denying them drinking water.

    I can assure you that the government that invented such a marvelous way of theft as the FED, will be able to figure out something even more effective that denying the elderly patients their water.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2403501/Thousands-dying-thirst-NHS-Watchdog-forced-issue-guidelines-giving-patients-water.html

    • Benjamin October 16, 2013, 2:08 am

      What exactly were we discussing here, again? That people inevitably die because of socialism? That the TPTB can pull off a global-scale mass murder? That people won’t make inconvenient decisions and therefore will have them made for them?

      I lost track. But all that I was saying, originally, is that higher wages was poor compensation for a plague (or whatever else kills lots of people) and that a cooling earth did more for man, in the long run, than a mass die-off did. So there would be no benefit from a die-off or mass murder now.

      Also said “some” things about what the quality of life is based on, but that hasn’t brought any response from anyone yet (must’ve been mistaken for the mumbling janitor, I guess).

      Anyway, now all I’m saying is that I know what kind of people They are and what the results of these un-free systems are. That’s why I’m never going to accept the idea that the parasites are running for their bunkers, will release a virus to kill off their hosts, and then re-emerge into… What? What are parasites going to do without a sufficient host (besides die off, themselves, which is all I ever wanted out of them)?

      So I don’t worry about that because there is nothing to worry about. Just the same, I don’t worry about something I can do nothing about (nature is nature). All there is to “worry” about is what to do when the parasites come seeking a meal and slave. But there’s nothing complicated about what to do about that.

      • mava October 16, 2013, 4:57 pm

        Me too, ha-ha. I have lost the track… I don’t think I am trying to make a different point, I am agreeing with you, except on this: “So there would be no benefit from a die-off or mass murder now.”

        There will be. Think of it this way: If you overextend yourself, by buying, say, 8 cars, then you will have go through getting rid of them. This will not be a necessity, but it will be a choice of yours when you decided to have 8 cars. May-be you did not literally thought to yourself: “I would like to buy 8 cars full price, pay for them for a while, do some maintenance, and then let them go either for free or for towing yard fees or through a fire-sale.” May-be you thought: “I think I can afford to own 8 cars”. But in the latter case you were simply lying to yourself.

        In any case, and here is the point, at the moment of letting go 7 of those cars, your life will be made very much easier and you will find that the remaining one will be tended to much better by you. In other words, there would be a massive benefit from the other seven cars disappearing from your life.

        This will have nothing to do with the weather, but simply with you knowingly overextending yourself and thus building up something that you will have to get rid of later. It is exactly same with people.

        Barring the instances where some Fascist dictators decided on their own the fate of millions, in an economic sense, every time we overextend the population numbers, we will find them to be decreased, sadly, but, to the overall benefit of the remaining numbers, of course.

        You are absolutely correct that the parasites will not want to cull the productive numbers. Of course. Only the leaches.

      • Benjamin October 16, 2013, 6:56 pm

        Mava,

        Cars and people, eh? You’re seriously warped, to this dart frog. In as far as which non-theys can be done without, I let one of three things decide — what I can do nothing about; the person, themselves; those who would eff with me (and, more broadly, society). Other reasons are neither wanted nor needed.

        Over and out.

  • Troll October 15, 2013, 12:02 am

    We interrupt the usual, “Everyone is out to get us because life just sucks” soliloquies with a simple ABCD pattern on the Dow: The A is 6460, the C is 10340. In the immortal words of Paul McCartney and John Lennon . . . we can work it out.

    Previously scheduled doom and gloom programming is now back up and running.

    &&&&&

    The actual C lies at 10404, and it is a part of the pattern I used a while back to project a potentially important Dow top at 16810. My gut feeling is that it won’t be reached — but then, my gut is so often wrong that that’s why I prefer to rely solely on ‘technicals’. RA

    • original Dave October 15, 2013, 10:08 pm

      Warning! Warning Rick Ackerman!

      Mercury Retrograde begins 10/21/13
      and has been in the shadow/portend period since 10/1

      Gold has revisited its prior lows since last MR June/July.
      Volatility has increased with larger market swings
      Communications of all kinds are affected including
      computer as recently by Xerox/Walmart “glitch”, Verizon email tech “issue”, United Airline $0 fare purchases, the Banter room,
      verbal, as currently playing out in Congress
      and written, as shown by last week’s near record response to a Question of the Week.

      Basic MR rules are now in FULL force – backing up all computer systems, rechecking all plans esp travel
      not signing important contracts or starting major deals if at all possible especially for those with Scorpio sun/birth sign and/or rising/ascendant sign
      as Mercury moves through Scorpio from October 1 at 2º 31’ stations retrograde on October 21, 2013 at 18º 23’ Scorpio 6:29am EDT, it’s apex, and slowly retraces until going direct on November 10 at 02º 31’ Scorpio 4:11pm pm EST

      We are at the wobbly stage where we are likely to slip-up, make mistakes, and misread another’s communications during the retrograde.

      Mercury, aka, quicksilver, is defined as rapid or unpredictable in movement or change

      • mario cavolo October 16, 2013, 7:44 am

        Original Dave, as much as I don’t want to publicly admit it, I could have easily guessed and know we were heading into an MR again because my computer/kindle/phone/mailservers all started screwing up again. I swear I was just asking myself “Hey, is there an MR now?, I wonder…” I am not one to publicly even suggest such a ludicrous idea, yet the facts are the same and I do not make a point of following such things as MR’s top of mind in my daily life. But every time there’s an MR the pattern is exactly the same, including things which were in the works solidifying nicely and any new pursuits during, a complete waste of time. Every time!

        Cheers, Mario

      • original Dave October 19, 2013, 5:45 pm

        “I am not one to publicly even suggest such a ludicrous idea, yet the facts are the same and I do not make a point of following such things as MR’s top of mind in my daily life. ”

        Thanks for sharing, Mario. Sounds like you have a strong intuitive, sensitive side. Possibly you are or have rising a water sign vs. an air/earth/fire sign. You may have Mercury in your natal/birth chart in a Detrimental placement which implies every MR will be more noticeable to you than most people and/or you were born during a MR. During the last MR in Cancer, my Cancer friend born with Mercury in Cancer in Detrimental placement, collapsed in the street with Legionaire’s Disease. Other MR’s he was run over by a car, was in a car crash, etc. I’m Scorpio with Mercury in Scorpio at 19 degrees, so this MR is affecting me more as it approaches 18+ degrees on Monday, but it is not always negative. My metabolism has been speeding up since 10/1 and I’ve lost weight w/o any effort which I need to do when usually it’s a struggle.

        You can create your birth chart at astro.com, choose free horoscopes, chart drawing, enter your birth data and you will see your chart with list of planets, degrees, it usually lists if a planet is in Detrimental, Exalted, Dominant, Fall position when you were born. Right now it’s only showing these intermittently.

        This week we’ve had S&P, Google and Chipotle at all time highs, as in past MRs when AAPL hit a high, it likely won’t last once MR ends. AAPL has a few planets in Exalted position which may have contributed to their longevity and success.

    • Troll October 16, 2013, 2:51 am

      Stock Charts confirms your number . . . I will have a chat with my OTHER data provider.

  • Rick Ackerman October 14, 2013, 11:19 pm

    Larger and larger phone screens is no accident either. This is calculated to enhance the experience not of phone users, but of advertisers.

    • mava October 15, 2013, 4:52 pm

      Of course. The space on the screen that could be sold to advertisers is the total screen size minus what is absolutely necessary for the screen owner himself.

      The mini-tragedy of the current turn of the progress is the exact same tragedy as before – that is the fact that in part, the “free” had again been infecting our market. It started this time because we had allowed the government to use the new technology first, and this way, the internet become free before it become itself. The leaches didn’t need to pay for it, – we paid.

      Because of this, we have our current problem with advertisement and it is threatening to blow up into a huge privacy problem. Because the internet started out as “free” (I mean visibly free, supposedly free), the way to pay for it was chosen to be through the Luciferian approach. Thus we give up our minds and our souls, our identities and our privacy in exchange for the uniform “free” access to the web.

      (There are only two ways to pay for everything, the direct way and the indirect way, historically illustrated by signing the deal with the Satan. This indirect way is called selling one’s soul, because in leu of our own direct hardship, we chose to sell everyone else. This is the way we have chosen to deal with the Healthcare as well.)

      Had we not had the out of bounds government, it would had not been able to capitalize on the invention of the inter-net, and the internet would have been paid in the direct way. This way we would not have to feed the millions of leaches – the advertisers, and we would not have to lose our privacy either.

      &&&&&&

      The most insidious aspect of this rapidly evolving business model is that advertisers can now determine where one is standing within a few feet, the better to incentivize our next move with a coupon. Thus is the ad-man’s goal of turning us all into shopping automotons easily within reach.

      Will it be thwarted by riots over Facebook’s recent decision to make all of our personal information, likes and links instantly available to everyone on earth? Stay, er, tuned. RA

      • Kibitzer October 15, 2013, 7:35 pm

        Man, I can’t wait to watch that episode on “MAD MEN”. I guess it would have to be shown in one of Don Draper’s drunken dream sequences.

  • michael October 14, 2013, 10:54 pm

    “There is no solution” This is a statement by one who has stopped thinking, given up. The problem, solution dilemma is not one where the problem is separate from the solution. The solution is always embedded somewhere in the problem. Truth is always somewhere in ones ignorance.

    The article talks about how mechanization by the rich has devalued labor but I do not hear any complaint about how the morality, ethics of the rich has suppressed the poor. Granted , neither the rich or the poor are absolute saints or sinners but when the average wage of ceo’s is 600 + times the minimum wage, that is an internal problem with the self within each one of us. Not a mechanical problem, unless, one calls ones addiction to the habit of greed mechanical.

    http://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-2012-extraordinarily-high/
    Average CEO compensation was $14.1 million in 2012, using a measure of CEO pay that covers CEOs of the top 350 firms and includes the value of stock options exercised in a given year (“options realized”), up 12.7 percent since 2011 and 37.4 percent since 2009. This is our preferred measure.
    Average CEO compensation using a measure that covers CEOs of the top 350 firms and includes the value of stock options granted to an executive (“options granted”) was $10.7 million in 2012, 7.1 percent lower than in 2011 though still 9.1 percent greater than in 2009. Firms apparently pared back the value of new options granted because CEOs fared so well by cashing in options as stock prices grew.

    • Jill October 14, 2013, 11:03 pm

      This video Going to Extremes, is about this very issue.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydUtIiX8lgk

    • gary leibowitz October 15, 2013, 4:35 am

      Michael where have you been? I have touted the correlation between the rich and poor where the disparity is always greatest right before an economic collapse. You know now that 2008 was just a minor hiccup since the divide is actually steepening.

      Why do we blame our own class of people over big business and the top individual tier? Easy definable targets. I keep harping to the riots in NY during the Civil War over conscription. People rioted and lynched the blacks for their troubles.

      The Tea Party is determined to reign in spending on the very backs of the middle class support system. Since wages were stagnant for decades, and benefits lowered the burden to keep the average wage earner above water was thru governments subsidies. These are easily verifiable facts yet most here don’t give it a thought. There certainly is waste and inefficiencies, but to attack the disenfranchised “lazy” non-productive workers is foolish. The Tea Party members have no empathy for an individuals plight falling into despair. In their minds it translates to laziness. I wish they spend their energy “exclusively” on making government efficient. That would right all the imbalances from all sources. Just as a physician diagnoses and treats a disease. They don’t ignore sexually transmitted disease simply because they find it immoral.

      • Jill October 15, 2013, 9:18 pm

        Gary, the Tea Party would never make government more efficent for the 99%. That is the opposite of their purpose. Most of the Tea Party and Far Right Wing, and those “Libertarians” who always vote Republican, is composed of middle class or lower class people who are losing ground financially and are angry about it. Through highly effective propaganda, they have become the tool of the mega-corporation crony capitalist welfare queen companies who own the government. Propaganda eefficiently focuses their rage on the poor.

        So there is no reason for Tea Partiers to try to make the government more efficient for the middle class. The cronies’ propaganda only leads them to make government more efficient at giving subsidies, government contracts, tax breaks etc. to cronies.

        The easiest way for the crony mega-corporations to get people to vote against their own best interests is to cater so lovingly to people’s vices that they begin to think their vices are virtues– vices like racism, irrational rage, unwillingness to compromise, scapgoating of poor people (shifting the blame off of the cronies, for the problems cronies cause.)

        It’s very clear who finances the Tea Party by buying elections for them. The idea of it being a grass roots movement is total propaganda bs.

        Tea Partiers say “I’m working hard and getting nowhere, or even losing ground.” That must be the fault of… let me think… poor people.” Yes, the government expenditures on little old ladies who paid in to Social Security for decades, doing back breaking labor, and now receive an $800 a month Social Security check, are the problem. Or the guy who works 2 35-hour part time jobs that pay so little that he still qualifies for food stamps. Tea Partiers think “He’s lazy. That’s the problem. Let’s lower the minimum wage and cut off his food stamps to punish him for his laziness.”

        See? The problem isn’t the huge subsidies & tax breaks for crony capitalists e.g. the many millions spent on planes of a type that the military has told Congress it does not need or want. Don’t even think of cutting that out of the budget. And the trillion dollar unnecessary wars that have been put on the credit card by Bush? No problem at all. It’s those “lazy people on welfare.”

        Tea Partiers have the utmost sympathy for saving the profits of the medical device companies who charge $30,000 for hip replacement equipment that costs them $300 to make. Poor medical equipment companies. That Obamacare tax on them is a sin and a shame– unlike children starving and going without necessary medical care, which would be perfectly fine with the Tea Partiers.

        Hating people poorer than oneself is so much fun. Since they are supposedly lazy and evil, the hater gets to be morally superior, responsible, hard working, and virtuous in all ways. Especially in anger, which provides both a rush of power and righteousness, as well as a feeling of superiority. The Tea Partiers seem to have a great deal of fun yelling about the supposedly evil people who are poor.

      • Craig October 15, 2013, 10:50 pm

        Jill,

        You are really a joke…you know the system is corrupt on both sides…you might even be close to realizing they work for the same interests. I didn’t even think about reading your statement but my eyes saw “tea party” “republicans” “bush” over and over again. Wake up stop supporting big business and big corporations. You are not on the winning team just because the democrats are in power. The winners are GE, Goldman Sachs, AIG, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, all the European banks etc…the same winners under Bush…oh all those winners gave more money to Obama than Romney. So stop supporting Obama and big business!!!

      • gary leibowitz October 15, 2013, 11:01 pm

        Jill, I think all “extreme” sides, both left and right, are guilty of using personal experiences to form their ideology. Unfortunate these same people can’t empathize without experiencing for themselves. I also find it fascination that college and populated urban neighborhoods seem to create a more moderate thinking politician. Exposure seems to decrease unrealistic fears.

        I hate to take sides between both parties since that is exactly what they thrive on. It diverts from the real issues. Places blame and vents frustrations instead of working for a common goal.

      • Jill October 15, 2013, 11:20 pm

        Craig, here’s another comment by me that you can respond to without reading, since you are allergic to facts. I know the Dems are corrupt. But the Repubs are MORE corrupt. They consistently give more money to crony capitalist welfare queen mega-corporations than Dems do. Yes, you can list corporations that donated to Dems and I can list ones that donated mostly to Repubs. But the records of Congress and the pres consistently show that the Repubs do almost nothing for the 99%, while the Dems occasionally do something for us, which is better than nothing.

        I love the way you Tea Partiers don’t feel any need to read a comment before determining that you disagree with it– because you realize that it contaians facts– which you are allergic to– such as the clear fact that Dems are less corrupt than Repubs.

        People on this board who say that both parties are the same, somehow always take the side of one party, never the side of the other. They bend over backwards to show the evils of only one party, never the other.

        I wonder why. LOL, actually I do not wonder why. The new Republican voter strategy: “Dems, please stop voting, because Dems are as bad as Repubs are.” Repub crony corporate representative know that no one who knows their own best interests would vote Repub, so there’s no use trying to get them to. So they try to get Dems to not vote. Well, it won’t work on me. I will continue to vote for the lesser of the evils.

      • Craig October 15, 2013, 11:39 pm

        You are so simpleminded you can’t even begin to understand the game that is being played. They even call it the grand game. The republicans are standing down on purpose and will allow the democrats to rule, they will give all the power of congress to the office of president making him a defacto dictator. The republicans will get a seat at the table. You and Gary will rejoice your side won under the hope and change that you were promised, you have got neither more of more of the exact same but worse. They will turn on you but you will never admit you were wrong. They have done this many times but not on this scale you and Gary etc are doing exactly what they need to get this done no sufferer then what the Nazis and Cimmunists in Russia did. Nazis = National Socialist workers of Germany. But you useful idiots believe the Nazis were conservative. The tea party stands in the way of the dictatorship not the paid off controlled opposition of the republicans. Like I said stop playing tic tac toe, learn what the big game really is an help humanity not the tyrants that get control by pretending to help the poor and unfortunate…or just move to North Korea that is the society you are Hoping and helping to get here.

      • gary leibowitz October 17, 2013, 1:02 am

        Craig, do you actually believe the stuff you say?
        The grandstanding till the 12th hour was to give the Dems what they wanted all along? Even FOX news can’t bite on that one. But according to FOX news and FOX only, they reiterated that there was no deadline for default. I guess the credit agencies, China, and the stock market over-reacted on the 12 hour deal. Gee, what a bunch of idiots!

        Craig you really don’t help your colleagues with your nonsense. Are you the Cruz on this debate?

      • Craig October 18, 2013, 4:28 am

        Gary you are so naive….Fox is in on it whether they know it or not. They are the controlled opposition. This is the same tactics the Romans used on the bavarians for 100s of years. They (the bankers) control both sides of every debate. You are so simple minded you really could be con very easily and are. The republicans always talk a good game (to appease their voters) then fold exactly when they have strength. They were told to let the gov shut down and they were told to fold on it. I could spend the next 3 months explaining the how’s and what’s and who benefited and what military phychological warfare game is being played but even if I did you would just look at me and say racheal madcow says Cruz is bad and she should know she got millions in banker bailout money from the federal reserve….again look it up, your sources for your “facts” are financed by the people lieing to you to give up your freedoms willingly. You have taken the con hook line and sinker.

  • Craig October 14, 2013, 9:47 pm

    The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.
    Vladimir Lenin

    That would be the middle class and the costs of labor in America.

    The dollar has lost 98% of it’s purchasing power in 98 years under the federal reserve.

    Taxes (total) eat up 50-60%+ of income depending on what State you live.

    A quality American product that has not skimped or offshored

    • Craig October 14, 2013, 9:51 pm

      …(continued, stupid iPhone) was $425 in 2000 and in 2013 it is $775…that’s 4.8% per year. It is a plan not an accident.

      • nonplused October 23, 2013, 5:29 pm

        There were iPhones in 2000 where you live? They weren’t introduced until 2007 here.

  • mava October 14, 2013, 9:43 pm

    Benjamin,

    “Besides, to say that the death of many is needed, necessarily justifies mass murder. ”

    It will be solved by mass murder again. However, to say that the mass murder is needed is to say nothing. It is not “needed” per se. It is rather inescapable, because we had already threw away every other option, because we all hope that we, in our own person, will not be included in the coming mass murder. None of us cares about those who will be included.

    If this wasn’t true, then we would have chosen at least one of several other options. The thing is, every one of those options would have cost us some inconvenience of calling things as they are. You see? Calling the truth vs. having a necessity of another mass slaughter in the future? We weigh the options and decide that a little of mass slaughter is not such a bad price for not having to face the truth about ourselves.

    There is no necessity of such mass slaughter in the future. But there is no other way around, because this is the only option we, as people, would ever accept.

    • mario October 15, 2013, 3:11 am

      And several hours later apparently none of us have a clue, so do tell dear Mava…

    • Benjamin October 15, 2013, 3:29 pm

      Mava,

      I’ve seen a can of worms opened, but this is a 12-pack! I think I can manage to be brief and clear, though…

      There is a difference between dead and spiritually dead. Ultimately, there are two outcomes in this world. So I will either be alive and spiritually alive, or dead and spiritually alive. Put the focus on yours, and there will be justice, guaranteed, come what may.

  • mava October 14, 2013, 9:35 pm

    This is getting very interesting… Two important causal events were named firmly so far, the Plague, and the Medieval Warming Period.

    Unlike almost every other time, I can not point to your education and thus appear less appealing that I might be if I simply kept my mouth shut. This time, just like you, I was duped too, by my very own teachers.

    My teachers conspired against me, in that they did not tell me about the one causal event with enormous significance. Just like, I suspect, your teachers did conspire against you.

    But, I don’t want to spoil the fun for you. I am not going to actually name it. Yet, I have to give you a hint. The first half of a CRC32 hash of an answer (a single word, describing what it was all about) is: b7df.

    If you name it, then you will see the immediate commonality between then and now. Can you name it?

    • mario cavolo October 15, 2013, 5:13 am

      No bites or guesses from anyone yet Mava, come on spill the beans oh giver of wisdom 🙂

    • Paul October 15, 2013, 7:16 am

      The answer is — tada — money (case-sensitive)

  • Rich October 14, 2013, 7:28 pm

    Market alert echoing Rick’s ES comment above:

    With well-informed insiders Blackstone, Fidelity and JPM out of 4 week bills and the lack of government economic data, the possibility of a market crash and closure is very high.

    Boehner yanking the rug on the 3 PM Reid “settlement” provides a perfect trigger.

    A false flag event after things went smoothly with the bikers, truckers and vets taking down the barricades could keep the ATMs, credit cards and markets closed for a fortnight.

    There is chatter about the East West cartels taking the banks down again for blood in the streets buy ops.

    Any market crash closure may well be followed by Bernanke and Brisket cranking up the helicopters and Ben Franklins.

    Bottom line:

    cash, food, physical and ammo if so inclined

    This weekend two WMTs in LA were cleared out in hours when EBT system crashed…

    • DK October 15, 2013, 1:05 pm

      Dry ice bombs found at restricted area(s) at LAX. 2nd Exploded near a plane.

      The CDC comment above looks like many that have appeared at Infowars over the past many years.

      Meanwhile, the WH organic gardens are becoming over grown and the produce is rotting on the vine – because the people who would normally harvest have been furloughed. Pathetic. Oh, the irony!

      By the way, anyone paying attention to Fukushima? Typhoon headed that way? Radioactive starfish abound. No more Mahi for me.

    • DK October 15, 2013, 1:24 pm

      RE: EBT system

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYRG9f5F4gw

      Who profits the most from food stamps? Gary are you paying attention?
      Max Keiser doing what he does best – good man.

      • gary leibowitz October 15, 2013, 10:06 pm

        DK, you aren’t listening as usual.

        Point in fact: I have always, I repeat always wanted MORE government restrictions and rules preventing both politicians and corporations from profiting with power and graft.

        Thank you for enforcing my views, which by the way are counter to YOURS and everyone else’s, regarding governments ability to skirt the system. Bring back accountability and real enforceable rules. Glass-Seagull where are you when we need you the most. Why isn’t the Tea Party DEMANDING this be reinstated? Anyone?

        Keep them coming folks! You people seem real confused with my position. I can’t for the life of me understand why.

        BTW, this was video was posted in 2010.

      • DK October 16, 2013, 6:26 am

        Actually, I am listening, I hear you loud and clear in surround sound (unfortunately).
        It does not matter when the video was posted, the content is the same and the CONTENT is the point. Apparently you weren’t LISTENING. Not only is it bad policy, it is perpetuated at the behest of government and crony so-called “capitalists.” You cannot have it both ways in our system, our government is fascist and both “sides” are completely complicit in its function. How can you not see this? I know your statist views, you’re pretty clear, you’re as statist as they come. You stand behind what they are for and what they’ve done. You helped make the bed, now you can sleep in it.
        Of course it was bad policy RE: Glass Steagall, but it was a long time coming via the likes of Maxine Waters, et al. It simply and conveniently accelerated the cause, THAT is what you don’t get. Gas on the fire. How you can go on ranting for seemingly hours on end and be so utterly dense is beyond comprehension on this board. It is staring you right in the face, yet you either cannot see it or you conveniently ignore it. I’m sure many in here notice the ongoing echo.
        Oh well, for me it’s back to reality.

      • Redwilldanaher October 16, 2013, 1:36 pm

        Add DK to the list of folks that have arrived at the same conclusion re: Gary. A lesser man might at this juncture pause and self reflect. I’ve been @ Ricks long enough to know “that ain’t happenin’ ” as they say…

      • DK October 16, 2013, 7:05 pm

        I’ve done enough listening to Gary and his ilk, RWD. He is delighted that his fellow citizens are being targeted by the likes of the NSA, IRS, CIA goons squads, etc. Too bad he doesn’t realize he’s not immune to the same chicanery, or maybe he’s just sadomasochistic.
        The nonsense simply gives me a headache, but there’s a quick remedy, at least regarding him.

        Although they are gearing up for the economy to “sh*t the bed” again we are subject to listening to this puke about Hillary 2016, I must say I am taking great joy in watching O-care get exposed. Doctors are quitting all over the place, insurance agencies are firing people left and right, people are getting laid off en masse, glitches abound, and nobody on “the Hill” will give a straight answer on anything. They didn’t read it even after they passed it but they want to be exempted from it. Hot potato.
        Henry Waxman snarls at a reporter after being asked if he read the 10,500+ pages of regulations O-care ushers in. “Is it important that I read it?!” Then he calls it a “propaganda question” and storms off.
        Hilarious!
        Really??

  • DI October 14, 2013, 6:49 pm

    There are scores of explanations for America’s problems. It is true, labor has lost its pricing power, but that too is only just a symptom of the larger problem that is sapping the life out of everything.

    So let’s step it up a notch. The real problems facing America are monopoly capitalism, and too much debt. Too much debt is a direct result of monopoly capitalism.

    The problem is that America looks out and sees capitalism, and they call it free-market, when it is not. Ford, GM, and Chrysler are three monopoly corporations that historically controlled the market for transportation in the US. They used their money and their power to influence legislation that effectively raised barriers against competition, or the legislation raised the cost to competition, which is the same thing. America saw three corporations, in competition, and relaxed way too much.

    This monopoly control exists in banking/finance, defense, agriculture, and in medicine; just to name a few.

    It is monopoly capitalism that exported jobs to foreign nations and laid waste to America’s industrial capacity. It was monopoly capitalists that supported and wrote most of ObamCare, the illegal, unconstitutional monstrosity that is threatening to kill the economy.

    One of the attributes of monopoly capitalists is anonymity, and since people don’t look around and blame the right culprits, they end up pointing at symptoms and blaming the wrong players. And this problem will never be fixed until the problem can be correctly identified and the population educated. Good luck with that…

    What about Congress and the Administration? You think they work for you??!!! Some few actually do, but the important power players mostly work for the monopoly capitalists. These include but are not limited to: Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Boehner (sic?), Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Clinton, Clinton, daddy Bush, Kissinger, and lots of other (too many to name).

    I am not anti-capitalist. I am pro-free-market capitalism, and anti-monopoly-capitalism. It isn’t that free-market capitalism has failed America, rather it’s that we haven’t used it in a very long time.

    We are all in it a lot deeper than anyone actually wants to consider.

    • gary leibowitz October 15, 2013, 4:17 am

      A free market demands winners. You can’t have it both ways. Government is supposed to level the playing field for all. If the top tier of any industry or group gain political control, as it has been going on since the dawn of time, imbalances occur. The policy makers have abandoning the rules and regulations that prevent such monopolies. Moot point since a nation in the throws of despair will eventually lash out at the correctly identifiable culprits. And so it goes….

      • DK October 15, 2013, 11:09 am

        Gary, that is beyond laughable. I am not getting lured into another round with you, it is simply ridiculous, it would take too long and you will just not listen and stew in denial.
        You do not understand or have not given enough thought to the true cause-effect of Sherman Antitrust, Clayton Antitrust, FTC Act, Interstate Commerce Commission, etc. The latter was enacted at the praises of the rails, as their attempts to fix pricing was awful.
        The government is the the problem.
        Don’t you find it curious that companies are always launching these suits against rival firms, not government doing so?
        Interesting…

      • Cam Fitzgerald October 15, 2013, 8:54 pm

        “Government is supposed to level the playing field for all” ~~ Gary

        Oh man, that was your best line EVER. I almost broke a rib laughing! Surely you jest. The job of government has always been to tilt the playing field in favour of their supporters. Why the heck do you think there are lobbyists, Gary? How about campaign contributions (maybe those dollar amounts don’t matter?). Just think it through. If you had the power to create money and write the laws others will live by would you not also make sure it was in support of your own team? Please Gary,…… why are there competing political forces, coups, revolutions, civil wars, unrest, police states, surveillance, penalties, fines, jails, capital punishement etcetera etcetera. Think that’s all for show and the guys in power are levelling the playing field in favour of all od society? Then why is there a so-called 1% and why is there extreme poverty in a world swimming in cash and credit? Too damned funny, man!

      • gary leibowitz October 15, 2013, 9:55 pm

        DK and CAM,

        Please explain the event after the Great Depression. No, start with before the Great Depression and tell me governments aren’t an spitting image of its citizens. Corruption was rampant before the great depression by politicians, industries, and individuals. Governments still get elected by it’s citizens, or have you decided that isn’t so? It is only after the masses get fed up with corruption that they revolt. It is a revolving door. How the masses get fed up is when the majority of voters are affected negatively. Perhaps that’s why it took so long for change to occur. Is this statement not true? The Tea Party movement is one example. To detach government from it’s citizens is laughable. Just because greed and corruption was allowed to flourish doesn’t mean that they couldn’t be voted out. Just because they weren’t voted out, when you believe they should have, also doesn’t mean it is rigged.

        Why do I respond with specific points and ask for a counter argument yet never get one? If my ideas are so naïve you should easily explain away the Tea Party, or a drastic government shift to level the playing fields AFTER the Great Depression. Waiting….

      • Cam Fitzgerald October 15, 2013, 10:40 pm

        Sorry Gary….you lost me. What exactly is your specific point? Your comment does not compute. Also waiting……

      • gary leibowitz October 16, 2013, 3:45 am

        Cam,

        Understand this. Before Great Depression greed and corruption from government run amok. After Depression we had the biggest boost to prevent such from happening again. It held for 50 years. New generation, new cycle. Is this also too complicated for you?

        You are so filled with anger and hate that you refuse to “listen” to my basic premise. Governments, like the people it represents, are susceptible to the same set of enticements. The imbalance and extreme corruptibility of government went on so long because of the explosion of spending to all parties. Elite enjoy the most power and money control in history, while the middle class treaded water with all the subsidies paid for by a broke government.

        What do you think will happen once the Tea Party mentality gain control? Will the middle class accept their own decisions, or will they realize how much more pain they will be in once these programs are abandoned? We shall see as this plays out.

        The notion that government is an entity unto itself does not reflect past realities. When the masses vote as one, during economic extremes, government change. It has before, and I suspect it will do so in the future. In fact every single time we go thru these cycles we as citizens ends up better for it. I hop[e and expect that the next dawning of good times will bring on a better future for its citizens.

        Most here call me naïve or worse, yet can you deny these basic principles haven’t already happened in the past? Have we always emerged better off from the prior economic debacle? If not what era would you prefer to be stuck in?

      • Craig October 16, 2013, 7:16 pm

        Gary the great depression was a power grab by your friends the bankers it was by design. Expand the credit (roaring 20’s) pull the credit, depression. Not only did they get more power and assets, the crisis allowed the preplaned “solutions” to be implemented by Roosevelt.

        Invent the crisis and use your solution tomatoes more power…let the sheep do your propaganda for you stop being a sheep for the bankers.

        “A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude. To make them love it is the task assigned, in present-day totalitarian states, to ministries of propaganda, newspaper editors and schoolteachers…. The greatest triumphs of propaganda have been accomplished, not by doing something, but by refraining from doing. Great is truth, but still greater, from a practical point of view, is silence about truth.”

        ~Aldous Huxley

        Gary you love your servitude, keep licking your masters (the bankers) boots. Keep silent about the truth keep regretting the banker propaganda for them.

      • gary leibowitz October 17, 2013, 12:52 am

        Craig, please show me facts, not some dribble about banks gaining power after the great depression. What a joke. Did you actually say they planned on FDR’s implementations? Gee, and I thought banks were dead investments with no ability to expand. I must have gotten the laws and rules all mixed up.

        Anyone want to step in here? Anyone want to help Craig out? I would love to hear just where I got sidestepped. No shame in wanting to understand and expand on knowledge. Perhaps you can supply me with that information.

      • Cam Fitzgerald October 17, 2013, 8:26 am

        Sure Gary. Always happy to add a counterpoint. You make reference to the Great Depression and specific political historical events as evidence that governments work is to level the playing field for all but don’t seem to understand those might be anomalies. Step away from the minor exceptions and try to see the facts of how power really functions in light of history for a change.

        Or think smaller. Have you never had employees?

        Let me ask you this…..if you were the boss of a company would you treat your workers fairly according to what the workers want or according to what you believed they should recieve in compensation? Would you pay the highest salary they demanded and give the most generous of benefits or would you work the numbers to ensure you had more of the profit and gains for yourself your family and your friends?

        You need to step back from examining the bark on the tree or you won’t know it is a tree you are looking at. Those with power and influence do not just give it all away for nothing. They do not “tilt” the playing field for the benefit of all the people below them. Neither do elections bring fairness and equity anymore than a tea party and discussion amongst the warehouse staff will make them all millionaires at the boss’s expense.

        Geez Louise, you are a very naive person.

      • gary leibowitz October 19, 2013, 6:14 am

        Cam, a counterpoint? Not in my book. You still seem to trivialize the 50 years after the Great depression as some anomaly? Surely you jest. Bank monopolies and growth was just not there for 50 years. In fact the steps put in place after the Great Depression was specific. It dealt with the problems arising to create the Great Depression. The government abandoned it because 50 years is a generational switch. I guess we had some strange alien invasion of the body that allowed this anomaly to go on for so long. Next!

      • Cam Fitzgerald October 19, 2013, 1:43 pm

        Gary, I strongly encourage you to read your own posts BEFORE you hit the “submit” button. What you just wrote does not even make sense. I read your words three times and can hardly even arrive at a discussion point where we can continue this conversation because it amounts to rambling nonsense.

        Is it really any wonder you infuriate everyone here?

        They just have not realized that you might actually be a moron with a keyboard, a case of beer and nothing better to do than be irritating for the group. Please explain what the Great Depression (a minor historical event in the big picture) has to do with what we are talking about.

        If you have forgotten incidentally, I am responding to your childish comment that “Government is supposed to level the playing field for all”. That is pure unadulterated nonsense as I sure you should know. What do you even mean when you write “Bank monopolies and growth was just not there for 50 years”?

        What the hell does that even mean? Cripes man….you have got to do better than that. Put on your thinking cap and try to explain that bland sentence with just a little more effort. Sorry to say…..I have no confidence you can pull it off.

        I sense you are very tired. Maybe a break would help. A holiday perhaps? If you cannot complete even the most simple of thoughts you are better not to bother posting here at all.

    • mario cavolo October 15, 2013, 5:11 am

      Its well said DI, the problem isn’t having government or a particular societal system. Its whether or not it is well run in a balanced way by good leaders. Unfortunately the U.S. simply doesn’t have that which as a single statement might not matter so much in the broader scheme. But as the U.S. is the world’s “#1” country, it makes the situation all the more precarious, not to mention nauseating; the greatest, biggest country in the world that the rest of the world so depends on and it is in a government shutdown? Disgusting and shameful…

      Cheers, Mario

      • Redwilldanaher October 16, 2013, 9:40 pm

        Yet another great quote from Huxley that will be lost on noble and compassionate Gary, oh, and Jill too…

  • DK October 14, 2013, 3:43 pm

    http://www.ksla.com/story/23679489/walmart-shelves-in-springhill-mansfield-cleared-in-ebt-glitch

    $0.49 – tried to get away with $700 in goods?

    hilarious, great system

  • Benjamin October 14, 2013, 1:09 pm

    There’s a zillion points that I alone could make, and there’s surely zillions more that can and will be made by others. So in approaching this topic, I’ve decided to let a series of coin tosses decide where to put my focus…

    But first, I would like to point out the occurance of something that was far greater and more productive than a plague. The Medieval Warming Period not only fell back to an ongoing average, but dipped below it a bit, thus producing a Little Ice Age period. During that time, the Renaissance and Enlightment took place.

    Until then, it was wars, endemic diseases (smallpox, plagues, etc), emperors, kings, bad whether, floods, etc etc etc. “Life” as usual. Even the big plague fixed nothing for man (so what if it “fixed” lower wages?). But a warmer earth had always allowed man to bounce back. That could not be foreseen as things continued to cool off. The writing on the wall was evident to even the illiterate… Agriculture needs warmth!

    Thus one of the major breakthroughs of the Renaissance, if it was not the THE breakthrough, was the death of fate. Man was increasingly viewed as independent of a preset conclusion or outside whim (from whatever source). He had the ability to decide his own course. Given the cooling situation, it doesn’t seem to me that coincidence was possible.

    Besides, to say that the death of many is needed, necessarily justifies mass murder. Attila the Hun, Genghis Khan, Muhammed, Hitler, etc were really just doing God’s good work. When God/nature fails to do what Man needs done, it necessarily falls to Man to do it himself. Even if it means culling his own.

    But about that coin toss result…

    Even today’s real unemployment rate isn’t as high as it historicaly has been (near and far). Yet, people were better off when it was higher. Families were stronger, communities were stronger, businesses were stronger, education was better… Government was weaker..!

    Can even a truly free market create enough good paying jobs for everyone? If that were possible, we’d see history in a vastly different way. Instead of all we complain about today, we would be pining for the good old days, where one rarely if ever had to share a dwelling with a “spouse”; where there was never one “breadwinner” in a “household”; where having kids was an optional if revolting luxury of evironmental destruction and wage-killing, instead of being considered a good portion of the economic present and future.

    However, unemployment marches relentlessly towards what reality says it should be. Families are staying together for longer. But it all resembles a mismatched Mr. Potatohead. Go to shake his hand, and you’ll revolt to discover that you’re really picking his nose!

    Higher unemployment in many instances is really just an inadequate part time job. Or, in a number of instances, the student loan-indebted offspring is living with a divorced parent for what is shaping up to be a lifetime arrangement. So there is no correction in those facts. Only mutation. What is the mutatgen?

    The idea of full economic independence for everyone aka “equality” or “social justice” is one of the mutating factors. But who in their right mind can attack economic independence, equality, and social justice?!

    What people had in the “oppresive old days” wasn’t economic independence (not for men, women, or children). What they had were the shared ventures — that is, economic obligations — of household and family. Partnerships were equal responsibility and, to the extent both partners were, the outcome was just. But along came the spider of “equal economic independence for all”, and so, for very obvious reasons, it hasn’t worked out for very many non-spiders.

    The simple fact of the matter is, there is never going to be enough for a serperate dwelling for so many, a good-paying job for everyone, and no need for families and households. Those things are detrimental, just as plagues and cullings are.

    • Rick Ackerman October 14, 2013, 9:27 pm

      Well, Benjamin, there could be happy days ahead, at least for Malthusians and One-Worlders. Below is a note I just received from my bird-flu expert, Erich S. His comments concern information recently posted to the web site of the Centers for Disease Control:

      Due to the lapse in government funding, only web sites supporting excepted functions will be updated unless otherwise funded. As a result, the information on this website may not be up to date, the transactions submitted via the website may not be processed, and the agency may not be able to respond to inquiries until appropriations are enacted.” (from the CDC’s website above, notice the blatant typo like the rats have left the ship and nobody cares to get it right anymore because there ain’t gonna be an anymore!)

      * * * *

      Unfortunately, one of those respectable agencies, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control, which says on its website that it has been “closely monitoring” the MERS situation, has developed public health guidelines for responding to the disease, and has worked with authorities in Saudi Arabia and Jordan to investigate outbreaks, is shut down.

      The CDC is currently “working with a barebones staff” and a spokeswoman told the Journal on Sept. 30 that it will not “have staff or funding to fight measles outbreaks or monitor seasonal flu activity,” and that “surveillance for emerging diseases like MERS will be limited.”

      Maryn McKenna writes for Wired that “the CDC loans scientists and sends money to the World Health Organization and to dozens of countries in the industrialized and developing worlds” to “track the emergence of new flu viruses that have pandemic potential”. With the shutdown, “we lose some of the most accurate tools” to catch a potential pandemic before it happens. (from an independent source- the CDC is “shut down”?!!)

      ****

      Rick,

      Warning, Pandemic threat dead ahead. This is the beginning of Pandemic season. There is no CDC/WHO at the helm! All the scientists and politico have abandoned ship and made their escapes into their ‘underground bunkers’, several years ago phasing out their early retirements so as to avoid obvious stampede. It appears they have all gone now. THIS is the leading candidate for the upcoming false flag (and/or my anticipated earthquake at the San Madrid, Montana area strike and Philadelphia hit… multiple attacks this time around, guaranteed to bring down the USA), any of at least three deadly population killer viruses all set to Final Mutate and bind with the human host. The 2009 H1N1 which is the 1918 strain matured, the new H7 HP strain and the Juggernaut HP H5N1. Another SARS like corona virus is recently introduced as well! They are determined. This speaks to all I’ve been writing exactly. Since 2008 they’ve tried and tried, it seems they will get it right this spin of the Pandemic Roulette Pistol.

      E.

      ps: 95% of us are supposed to die last I checked, considerably more than even I anticipated, when ‘it’ happens and we lose communication. It was nice to have had the pleasure of knowing you.

      • Craig October 14, 2013, 9:42 pm

        Germ warefair scientists was the most dangerous occupation a few years ago in Europe and the USA. Most common cause if death was “car accidents” “home invasion” and “suicide”. All the high level germ warfare centers are located on fault lines or hurricane hot spots. It would be a convent “accident” when it happens. I dont think we will be going down this road anytime immediately soon but it is definately in the TPTB’s plan for us.

      • Benjamin October 15, 2013, 1:32 pm

        Hi, Rick

        Wasn’t expecting such an extensive reply from anyone, so this is a curveball..!

        Well, I suppose if 95% die, then the other 5% might as well join them. I think there’s something like 130 people per square mile of land on this Earth, at current population density. Those 6.5 per square mile survivors would be so spread out, and there is no way any of them can know where they’re at, what they’re like, what skills they have, etc.

        While I know that people can be full of all kinds of surprises, this scenario would be quite unlike anything man has _ever_ had to deal with. While we’ve certainly had such low populations at some time, once again… in that new world, Mr. Potatohead would be listening with his mustache and hat.

        Maybe not all is as it seems, though. I wanted to post a quote of something I’ve recently read, but I couldn’t find what I was looking for where I thought I read it. So this is probably not exact…

        “If a sphere contained all of our knowledge, the more genuine knowledge we accquired, the more the sphere would expand. But as the sphere expands, the surface area is in greater contact with the unknown.”

        I believe the point is that the more we know, the more we know we don’t know. If this virus is genuine knowledge, then there is still no saying what will happen. But not even They know if it even is genuine knowledge. How could they, if they never tested their pet germ on a global scale?

        On another hand, all the near-earth meteors this year, one of which landed in Russia…

    • mario cavolo October 15, 2013, 5:08 am

      Great thought stream Ben, as I refer to the catalysts of the Renaissance period in my first book and prefer starting to look at issues from the macro point of view. From that point of view, and I’m not saying it to be mean, on today’s planet, far more millions of people are having their lives improved rather than in decline. The global economy doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the 100 million Americans who have been screwed by the ongoing developments and progress and cycles of society with all its good and bad results. For every 100 million Americans who’s life is getting tougher, for all the reasons well-espoused by many of us in this forum, there are a total of over a billion rising middle class Chinese, Latin Americans, Indians and others whose lives are getting much better and will continue to do so for the next twenty years. That’s the plain truth, until we have some sort of catastrophe, financial or otherwise that brings the whole house of cards down. And make no mistake, the house of cards is now a global one, if any one continent experiences some calamity, the reaction is global. That’s why I’ve stopped listening to experts, (Joshua Ramos, The Age of the Unthinkable), they can get a handle on what may happen far less now than ever in the past 100 years…

      Cheers, Mario

      • Benjamin October 15, 2013, 2:11 pm

        Mario,

        You wrote a book?! Man, I’ve been away from here too long! So what’s it called? Maybe I can get around to reading it this winter (if the flu season will let me, that is).

        On rising peoples: That’s great and all, but I don’t care (not to sound callous or bitter, though). I don’t think modern-day globull-y so my concern is right here at home. But, as it must turn out, a global picture must emerge from that focus. I wish the coin toss had favored the “protectionism” aspect of the topic. But that was yesterday..!

        Trading manufactured goods (more to the point, cheap wages) is nothing to increasing the amount of traded natural resources, which is the one thing any and all countries on this earth want and need. Shipping capacity is eternally limited, so why waste it? Why not let manufacturing be mostly a domestic venture, with resources crowding up the barges and ports?

        We’d all benefit a great deal more if that is how the world worked. Demand for all kinds of labor would shoot up from this depression, jobs galore… Everywhere, not just where it is most needed. And no trade wars would errupt. Instead, there would be a rise in the trade of ideas (which obviously don’t take up shipping capacity). I wrote about that in an essay that Rick published maybe a year ago, pertaining to patents and their real purpose. If you’d like to read it, I’ll be happy to dig it up and post the link here.

        But the problems and solutions are so _obvious_ and out there. I can’t imagine this going on forever, nor for terribly much longer.

      • mario cavolo October 16, 2013, 7:34 am

        Yea, my friend an Australian explained to me how that country’s economy is strongly based on their natural resource exports, amazing social benefits available to families there. Meanwhile, yep did publish my 2nd book but so far only the First Print Edition Asia Pacific for this local market is available. I’m doing alot of live book events in this region. A traditional publisher will publish it in the North American in a few months both print and on Amazon/Kindle.

  • mava October 14, 2013, 10:52 am

    It is ridiculous to suggest that the rise in efficiency of work is causing the hardship. Here is why:

    Say, you’re so efficient, like never before. And your work is to do whatever, say finding a buyer for a real estate. This means that you are able to find a buyer in just one hour of work, where before you would spend a whole day to find that one buyer. Now you don’t need to work the whole day.

    If your efficiency had increased, then either your quality of life must rise, or your hours must shrink, else someone is taking an advantage of your efficiency gains.

    The rise of machinery has nothing to do with the hardships. Here is why:

    The rise of machinery is only a method for an increase in efficiency. Thus, see above.

    What changed? Well, few things. First of all, the nature no longer wants dummies. The introduction of the machines means that the average work is becoming more capital intensive. As such, this introduces the change. Where before the natural, zero capital level of average production used to correspond to what any human would have anyway, without taking any care, today, the the natural capital intense level of average way of production no longer correlates to the level available to any careless human.

    Today, an average human must ‘take care’ to survive, because he now needs to have some capital. If not, then he can not compete with others producing by use of machines, and his output will be arbitraged down in price or up in cost. Either way, such uncaring human will not feel as successful as an average human before.

    I am not sure if everyone got this.

    What this means is that while machines did lift us all higher, relative to each other we will feel poorer unless we do leverage the machines just like our competition does. But do not rag on the machines while forgetting that that same average “poor” human is now able to buy for few dollars what would be impossible to have for quite a lot of money before.

    Secondly, we are humans. As humans we have this fault:

    You give us an extra dollar, and we will make an extra child to eat away at it.

    We are incapable of retaining the leverage given to us by a more effective production – we feel obligated to immediately spend it on new progeny.

    This is how boobus lives and operates. He gets some raises and of those, some he keeps and some he loses. But, what makes him a boobus, is this peculiarity that with every raise he immediately raises the level of his expenditures, and does it in an inflexible way. Thus every time he loses a raise, his actual “quality of life”, his “capital” , his total result gets lower and lower. Thus he is boobus and such is his fate.

    Finally a third reason. The government. The government exist in order to treat the human beings as its slaves, as it’s little engines, its production factories, if you will. The government does not produce anything nor does it render any useful service. It is a complete parasite on society.

    The problem is, that in a society that has an unhealthy love for the government, and does not clearly understands the above, the governments gets an ever-increasing appetite!

    So, today, the government is consuming over 70% of total output. It turns it into a luxury and power for themselves, but in our calculations that is a total and complete loss. So, do not forget to add a 70% loss to any thought you having about labor, efficiency or capital markets.

  • wayne siggard October 14, 2013, 6:37 am

    You used to be able to get a fair rate of return on your capital (retirement savings). At inflation plus 3%, that should get you (according to hopelessly facetious BLS statistics, about 5% per annum. A million dollars saved up should yield a little over $4,000 per month on a CD or annuity. What do you actually get? $1,000-1,500 per month.
    Not only does the government lie about the inflation rate ( a 3% plus the real rate of inflation would yield about $10,000 per month), but government policies and the Fed are suppressing interest rates in a hopeless attempt to cause inflationary increases in the stock market and real estate.
    So, your IRA might have had a spectacular increase due to the rise in stock prices, but the major beneficiary of low interest rates is Wall Street – and watch out for your IRA. Poland already did the dirty. IRAs and pension funds are the largest cache of cash left. Obama’s got his eye on yours.

    • DK October 15, 2013, 2:34 am

      Absolutely Wayne, there are a few who frequent this board that might come back to mindlessly argue your points; particularly the BLS statistics.

  • John Jay October 14, 2013, 4:56 am

    Amen Brother Chindit13!

    Yes, if we had the votes we could isolate ourselves from what is coming down the pike.
    But we don’t.
    My best guess is we could muster perhaps 20 million votes to make the hard choices that need to be made to at least hold the line at where we are now.
    The masses are eternally distracted and oblivious to their grim future.
    With all the momentous issues we are facing, what do I see on MSM television?
    Three hours of NFL pre-game coverage on Sunday morning!
    And that is before the first game even commences!

    I see very little chance that Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, and Katy Perry will side with us and deliver their 100 million Twitter followers to our cause.
    Not to mention the Khardashian clan!

    That leaves us on our own!

    Here is all you need to absorb from the Chindit13 economic analysis:

    “Many who realize what is happening now are grabbing for all they can while they can, all the while keeping their mouths shut about the grand and inexorable trend, lest a general panic set in”.

    That’s right, your only option is to make as much money as possible before that last door slams shuts and the Oligarchs take the whole stock/commodity/bond market private.
    And any wealth transfer will be strictly via arranged marriages amongst the New Royalty.
    Sir William Clinton is already presenting daughter Chelsea as the best candidate for POTUS.

    Naturally, she is, of course, of Royal Blood!

  • mario cavolo October 14, 2013, 4:56 am

    Ok, let’s look closer at the price of labor in America

    “America’s standard of living appears destined to remain in a downward spiral…”

    My difficulty is that I need to ask “who” more specifically when this idea is proposed? And I have endeavored to answer the question.

    The employment table at this link clearly identifies and in detail, who is employed and how much money they are earning in the U.S.

    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ocwage.t01.htm

    We all know overall middle class wages are flat, yes, but again let’s look deeper past the overall generalization. Yes, there are a larger and larger proportion of people earning lower wages and yes the change of the shape of the society driven by various change factors is causing fewer jobs to be had.

    But who and how many demographically are “suffering”? It is the lower half that is suffering indeed, but to suggest the upper half is suffering a decline in lifestyle doesn’t add up.

    According to the charts, there are 130,000,000 million employed and from my taking a moment to eyeball the numbers approximately 50,000,000 are earning +- $25k/year, while the next 50,000,000 are earning +- $60k/year and the top 30,000,000 are earning $80-100k/year and far beyond. I wonder how many are employed in total by the Fortune 500 companies.

    The trouble is indeed with the lowest 50,000,000 and now with Obamacare and all other such pro-government plans taking more taxes out of the economy and into the government, its going to get worse for them already struggling. Nuts.

    Moving on to the Babyboomers its impossible to disagree with Rick’s point that their retirements are sorely underfunded. In the big picture trend of urban people movement, they will make the necessary choices to adjust their lifestyles to reduce their budgets. They will reduce the size of the properties they live in, they will share rent with others; figuratively and literally speaking, they will freakin’ move to abandoned Detroit neighborhoods where they can rent in abandoned neighborhoods for $300/month in the name of saving money. Unfortunately that leads to the issue of high crime activity in lower end neighborhoods, yet this will also eventually revitalize those cheap, abandoned neighborhoods over time. I have a friend from England who after searching all over planet, decided to move to a nice town in Portugal for he and his wife’s retirement where crime and cost of living is low. Ditto for Americans. If you’re retired babyboomer on a limited budget then move to a smaller town in a neighboring state where you can rent for $500/month and get on with it. There is plenty to complain and bellyache about but meanwhile you also need to get on with your life where it is at as best you can.

    Cheers, Mario

    • original Dave October 14, 2013, 5:30 am

      Tonight’s 60 Minutes had a story on Detroit and it’s downtown resurgence with many businesses relocating there, including a branch of Twitter and Chrysler. You can watch if the Chinese internet firewall allows CBS propaganda through:

      http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50157064n

      • mario cavolo October 14, 2013, 6:15 am

        …that’s well to the point, thanks Dave. Actually CBS is open and most of the major news media brands aren’t blocked, and meanwhile I have the essential tool, a VPN…Cheers, Mario

      • Craig October 14, 2013, 9:00 pm

        Mario your comments are exactly how this is always allowed this to happen….well they don’t censor them now is BS. Just because it isn’t censored now is NOT the issue, the issue is that they CAN censor it to begin with. That’s the big problem we have right now in America is all the apologist that say they are not doing it now. And just like the NSA spying, we had people point this out for 15 years and they were marginalized by the media and everyone apologizing for the NSA and now that snowden and the Utah data center is built it’s like oh well it’s too late now. So once china or USA censors any website the excuse will be its too late now. We need to fight the ability to censor and not debate whether they have or will do it.

      • mario October 15, 2013, 2:59 am

        Hi Craig, I’m thinking that that there is an overall need for structure, order, decency and law in any society, though how that looks varied greatly from one to another, ie France vs USA vs China vs Vietnam vs Australia. But they all need degrees of governance and stewardship including reasonable degrees of censorship and that includes the internet, why shouldn’t it? For example , do we suggest a company is allowed to place an offensive ad or statement or photo on the internet if they like but not on a billboard? If it offends the public sensibilities in someway it shall not be allowed. In general I’m cool with that, we just hope that such controls are reasonable and executed with reasonable intent. But there’s no censorship utopia anywhere.

        Btw, sites like Facebook and Twitter are not blocked in China because of censorship, they are backed because it’s business protectionism to allow their country’s own form of that business.

        Cheers, Mario

      • Craig October 15, 2013, 9:10 pm

        The Government is not there to make the rules and decide what is fair or offensive. The people are, the courts comprised of “the people” will decide in a court of law in a civil suit or the court of public opinion will decide by not buying that product. We the people control the Government we are not subjects to king or lords elected or not. If Facebook was allowing offensive images and enough people were offended by it someone smart would seize the opportunity and provide competition, a Christian or kid friendly Facebook….that’s how it should work. Uh no i said the C word Jill and company will be coming in soon and be offended by using such a word as an example.

      • mario October 16, 2013, 5:44 pm

        Hi Craig, I surely understand your frustration, I’m so pissed and scared of what’s going on, the whole pack of them are self-serving blind monsters. Seen credit Suisse 2013 Global Wealth Report Pyramid chart yet? And that’s just one example, there are another dozen situations which are so extremely broken that people are numb and treat them as if they are the new normal, America’s healthcare system being the second grest example. People don’t have a clue how bad it is and what it portends. Yet taking the extreme idealistic point of view and pounding on it as you are doing isn’t going to change anything. Never in history has what you idealistically described as a country with government even existed in any society. Whether by vote or not, whether they do a good job or not, governments of some sort run societies. So I assume you’re just rhetorically blowing off steam, can’t say I blame you for that. It is appearing more and more clear that the U.S. system is in a complete shambles no matter what they do and being the top dog country on earth, which is a now globally fused economy, we should all be scared out of our wits. Maybe we could have a global sized Argentina…

        Cheers, Mario

      • Craig October 16, 2013, 7:01 pm

        It’s too late…a few months ago I and others were screaming to turn the titanic away from the iceberg, you are partially correct in that just recently me and others have pretty much decided we are going to hit the iceberg now, no amount of turning the ship will Change that so yes we are lashing out at the Garys and Jills that are still running around ordering drinks and telling the band to play louder. Some of it is lashing out some is still reflex to trying to save the ship, others have not realize or admitted it is too late. There are too many sheep in the way that believe the propaganda and they own it and will never admit they were wrong. I will be posting a Aldous Huxley quote that is relevant to this discussion. A lot of us should really looking for the lifeboats and leave the deniers and fools behind for good. It is fun to bash Gary and Jill along the way but like beating 7 year olds in basketball, it gets old.

      • gary leibowitz October 16, 2013, 7:44 pm

        Bash away Craig. I must tell you that my very first appearance here on this board I was using the term saturated debt. You just hate a person that doesn’t scream load enough “Fire”. I don’t focus my anger and energy on the blame game. We all are to blame and to deny this is foolish. You excuse the Sheeple as dumb animals, and accept the huge disparity of wealth, while attacking the government for all the troubles. Convenient way to vent. It also allows you to pinpoint the problem. Life rarely presents us with such easy solutions.

      • Craig October 16, 2013, 8:07 pm

        Kissinger actual said the military are dumb animals that deserve to be slaughtered. I already covered your part in this from huxley quote. You are so programmed it’s funny yet disturbing.

    • original Dave October 14, 2013, 6:18 am

      “If you’re retired babyboomer on a limited budget then move to a smaller town in a neighboring state where you can rent for $500/month and get on with it.”

      Even that strategy won’t be easy since
      Soc Sec COLA w/b very low next year, maybe 1.5%

      http://apnews.excite.com/article/20131013/DA9DCSFO0.html

      While, for example, NYC rent stabilized apartments increases are much larger:

      •For a one-year renewal lease commencing on or after October 1, 2013 and on or before September 30, 2014: 4%
      •For a two-year renewal lease commencing on or after October 1, 2013 and on or before September 30, 2014: 7.75%

      Possibly 2014 will be the year to move to China if there are rents way below $500. Like Chinatowns in the USA, maybe Americatowns will sprout up.

    • Benjamin October 14, 2013, 3:52 pm

      You seemed to have answered your question, Mario. I don’t know… are you still asking it? If so, I can only point out that you answered in the proceeding paragraph what you asked in the preceeding one. However, Obamacare and all other additions to Big Government, of course, are just additions to what has caused so much stuggle already. With social security alone, I can illustrate just how much one loses out on over the course of their life. Without it, at the very worst, people would wind up with the same amount of money at 65, but less or no debt (mortgage, college, etc). What hurts them is the time element, when it is available vs when it isn’t.

      Another way to look at the pain (among all classes) is by measuring what isn’t there anymore. And that’s a looong list. Suffice to say, people from different times know better that they’ve been screwed and that younger generations will be screwed even harder yet.

      • mario October 14, 2013, 4:08 pm

        Hi Ben, yes right, I intentionally asked and answered it to share here knowing people may jump in to add as they may, as you well did.

        Cheers, Mario

      • Benjamin October 14, 2013, 4:20 pm

        I should’ve known better than to ask what I should by now expect of you, Mario! 🙂

    • gary leibowitz October 14, 2013, 6:44 pm

      Mario,
      You argument brings us into the discussion of whether we live is a closed economic model or not. I relate this in terms of a closed-entropy system in which case there will always be winners and losers in a fixed proportional ratio. On a macro level when viewing the peeks and troughs of a countries economic strength we can see a pretty defined balance of wealth shift. Even when we add the unlimited power of governments to create money from thin air, I still see this as a closed system. The added money is equivalent to adding heat to a closed entropy system. If this model idea is true than the changing circumstances, like the industrial age, or the web, doesn’t really have the affect of creating more or less chaos to the whole system.

      How we view the system is important. The additional burden from government’s interference into social welfare could easily be achieved and successful if it is balanced with the same policies when it comes to corporate welfare, along with the top tier individuals. This combination of catering to both parties is a prescription for extreme chaos where the pressure is so great that the closed-system breaks down in a violent way. The system can go on forever with a balanced approach or even one where it is extremely lopsided. The socialist countries like Central Europe had a system where its citizens were given a set standard of living comfort zone that was paid for by a disproportional contribution of wealthy individuals and corporation. This model worked well until the globalization of our western ideals changed their model. In such a closed model if you try to inject into both poles (citizens/corporations) at the same time the closed system ceases to exist.

      How to fix the system? If this task was given to a group of scientists with no ideological bias the answer would be simple, release the pressure on all spheres of the system. Balance the excesses so we still maintain a round spherical design. In the real world I do believe it is achievable today. The backlash from having the crisis today has resulted in a Tea-Party movement. It can only work if the all or none, winner take all, ideology is tempered. The crisis of the mind is always worse than reality. We conjure up extreme scenarios and become caught in our own mental vise. Small incremental changes on both sides can result in big gains. It took 50 years to create this extremely chaotic situation. You can’t deflate it quickly without causing huge disruptions. We are an impatient species. We allow a crisis to develop over a long time and once realized revert to a fright and flight mentality. This system will break if we allow our emotional animalistic behavior to take control over our intelligence.

      • Craig October 14, 2013, 9:30 pm

        So everything would be fixed if the tea party movement is tempered!?!? WTF are talking about, I don’t want to know actually. You are so brainwashed and fulfilling the duties to the bug corporations that you say you are opposed. Gary you seriously hate a certain group of power yet you do everything they need to help them gain power like most libs. They champion for Obama and say the tea party and the republicans are lumped in with GE. When Obama is doing GEs bidding for them and so do you and Jill. You are too hateful and blind to see you serve your masters well yet the people you work so hard against…are your masters. While the tea party is working for you and against GE but you just continue to demonize your enemies enemy because you are too ignorant to see that you are.

      • gary leibowitz October 15, 2013, 4:04 am

        Craig, hateful and blind? And I thought just the opposite. Go figure? Me, I don’t shout down peoples opinions, stomp my feet, or hold my breathe till I am heard. The Tea Parties goal is self-centered around cutting government spending by going after social programs for the citizens it pretends to support. Why not corporate welfare? Have you heard one proposal that affects them? Just one? I find it interesting that most here agree that government caters too much to big business yet the talk on cutting spending is exclusively with social programs. Cutting waste and over-spending is a great idea that should be pushed at every opportunity. The manic one-sided fervor to do so based on a personal ideology of hard work with no assistance is absurd. Not everyone can live that creed even if they wanted to.

      • Craig October 15, 2013, 9:16 pm

        Do you have any idea what things would cost in the USA, what our standard of living would be if the dollar was not the reserve currency of all the other currencies and there was an alternative?

        All the Tea Party is tryin to do is to stop this from happening….it is a group of concerned.semi educated citizens. What you do not underwent because you spew out is Racheal Madcow BS is that the Democrats and Republicans work for the same overseas interests whether they know it or not. Plain and Therese of the rinos

      • Craig October 15, 2013, 9:28 pm

        Plain and the rest of the rinos job is to take over the Tea Party to misguide it and give people hope but not make any changes. Madcows job is to demonize the tea party as racist rednecks so people don’t listen to the concerns and don’t all come together united against the real power behind the curtain. Divide and conquer. So San Antonio tea party is racist huh? 75% hispanic.

        The democrats and the republicans have put us in such a hole that if we don not keep spending money we don’t have the markets crash. If they keep spending money like this the dollar will collapse due to the debt. It is too far gone the Tea Party only believes that the spending is the only problem we have to fix…but at least they believe in freedom and individual rights. They don’t support the big corporations THE TEA STARTED over the bail outs of AIG etc. You are such an uninformed fool but you are te worst type that just gets it from one source and helps the offshore interest destroy out country from te inside by divide and conquer. You are te reason this country is going to go into a depression and be a third world country by design because of your hate of successful people and all you are doing is bringing down your fellow American an helping the Bankers succeed, the ones you supposedly are against. They use the poor as a pawn to get uninformed fools to attack their enemies for them. Racheal Madcow and MSNBC got bailout money…enough said. Go do something about that/them!

      • gary leibowitz October 15, 2013, 9:41 pm

        Please! Stop the rhetoric. The Tea Party are obstructionists with absolutely no backbone. Case in point: Every single announcement from the Tea Party house when presented with a microphone and TV audience refused to present a concise plan. Not one specific program or plan that they push forth. If I am mistaken please enlighten me. In fact one congressman slipped up by first stating they want a cut in social security, only to quickly backtrack in saying entitlement modifications. Gutless as they come. Not one single Tea Party member will get on national TV and spell out an exact plan. They want to halt negotiations but can’t come up with ONE plan? Do you want to know why that is? They want group coverage when it comes to cuts.

        If the public is behind the Tea Party all they have to do is present their case and win elections. Simple? Yet I guess they can’t wait for the public to come around to their thinking? Out of 104 house members there are perhaps 2 to 3 dozen hard core Tea Party members. All they have to do is wait for the next election, spell out their cause, and watch their party mushroom. What is their problem? Their behavior warrants my calling them extreme uncompromising ideologists with no clue how to run a government.

        BTW, day 15 and what exactly is their policy or stand today? What are they trying to pass in order to cut spending? Anyone? I know what they are trying to repeal. That’s a no-brainer. I guess they forgot that rules and regulations get passed by a majority. I guess they figure they can cut to the chase and subvert the system. Did you know that on October 2nd of this year the house changed the rules on how a bill can be presented to the floor for vote? It used to be that any member can ask for a specific bill to be voted on by the house. Now it has to come from the majority leader only. Guess obstructionism is the target. What say you? Speechless? Perhaps shameful is ore like it. Change the rules to fit the obstinate few? Immigration was one bill that would have surely already passed. Politics over citizens concerns. Where is the outcry from this bunch?

      • Craig October 16, 2013, 3:51 am

        You are such great mouth piece for the bankers.

        The democrats are notorious for changing the rules and ten crying when it doesn’t benefitthem anymore…does more votes in the senate or the governor picking the replacement for a dead representative ring a bell?? Of course not but because you just want to get the republicans. You act like I am defending the republicans when I am against the whole current system (people and parties) not the constitution.

        The tea party house did get elected by the people that want change (by those Nasty gun and bible climbers you despise so much). But Washington has changed most of them and they will probably lose in their primaries. Don’t you worry many good people are ready to run in 2014 and 2016, who you will hate even more. Despite our best efforts your side will win you can celebrate it now, don’t worry I pity you as you are helpless and happen to live in the worst place to be WHEN the dollar collapses in less than 12 years so you will reap what you sow. Be careful what you wish for you might just might get it, you will in spades.

      • Craig October 16, 2013, 3:59 am

        So Gary and Jill did you guys celebrate and watch over and over again the men in darth Vader uniforms beating up 75 year olds vets??? Must have been very exciting for you two for your “side” to hurt those nasty tea party vets that wanted to honor their fallin brothers. Go Bankers!!! You guys could order posters of buffet, dimon, Obama, blankfiend and GEs CEO to pay honors to your heroes, that’s who your really supporting.

      • gary leibowitz October 16, 2013, 7:53 pm

        Craig, what you are missing is the fact that I do not hate. In fact that is the problem I have on this board with most of you. You want me to declare all government as anti-citizenry. I don’t hate the Tea Party. I expected them to start gaining power. I just think any rigid mindset with a religious fervor should never be running our country. Their anger, like yours, is misplaced. Start with the assumption that wealth disparity is the greatest it has ever been. Use that to correlate end of economic cycles. Determine why that is, and finally fix it. To attack social programs and in the same breathe want less restrictions and taxes on corporations and the wealthy is a prescription for a speedy train wreck.

        Is this not their platform? If it isn’t please give me a better understanding on their position. I would love to correct my misconception.

      • DK October 16, 2013, 7:54 pm

        Re: 2014/16, they desperately need the public to forget about the likes of Benghazi, etc. which, sadly, may very well happen. Just like all of the past “incidents,” they need the assistance of time, distraction, crises, medication and anything else in their arsenal to bury it. Rinse and repeat.

      • Craig October 16, 2013, 8:14 pm

        So you hate religious people. Got it.

        You keep thinking the tea party is defending the 1%. They are defending the middle class which I assume is you. You defend the democrats that defend the 1% under the rhetoric that they are defending the poor. All I am saying is stop being a sheep/pawn for the 1% because you are to ignorant to see the con!

      • gary leibowitz October 17, 2013, 12:45 am

        Craig, I hate fanaticism. I hate people that have all the answers and will not listen, debate, or adjust their views. All these fanatics are like religious zealots. I never said I hate religion. Got it!

      • Craig October 18, 2013, 4:13 am

        Gary your love of the democrats is a religion!

    • Jason S October 14, 2013, 6:51 pm

      Mario, I am interested in how difficult it was for you to relocate to China? Do you have family that helped to make that relocation possible or did you do it without any resources there to help? I would seriously consider it but for the language barrier and having a mentally disabled daughter. Do you see those things as hinderances after being there for some time?

      Thanks.

      • mario cavolo October 15, 2013, 5:00 am

        Briefly as to not stray far off topic with respect to Rick.

        Surely both tough and refreshing in many ways.

        I did it as a single entrepreneur at age 40 on my own promoting my services and ability, now happily remarried to a lovely northern Chinese lady, we have a 2 year old boy.

        Language barrier a royal pain in the a**, but not as bad in major cities. Your Consulate and Chambers of Commerce provide the support links needed to meet many others, many large expat communities including churches.

        Handicapped daughter, depending on what, actually I find such children-oriented services here in China quite well-established, cuz of the strong traditional family and marriage model still here, so you may be able to find satisfying support in this regard. I know doctor who can guide toward contacts, etc.

        If you wish further pursuit, contact me via my linkedin or twitter or facebook, etc…

        Cheers, Mario

  • Jill October 14, 2013, 2:39 am

    Thanks for your ideas, Buster. Very interesting. Although I see some regulations as very necessary to keep corporations from poisoning our drinking water etc., I agree with most of what you say here.

    I do think it is important to distinguish government and corporate power. The way I see it, government power exists in the U.S. only as a servant to corporate power. Huge corporations do not spend many millions on lobbyists and campaign donations because it doesn’t work. They say “Jump” and the government says “How high?” And the benefits they receive far outweigh in value the amounts invested.

    And as Bill Maher pointed out last Friday night, huge corporations like GE not only get all kinds of benefits from the government, but also often pay no taxes or even get a huge subsidy instead of paying taxes. He said: “They pay less tax than a stripper, who gets paid in cash, in the dark.”

  • Buster October 14, 2013, 1:43 am

    I have to say that I disagree almost entirely.
    I look around & see mountains of work that needs to be done, & millions of people with the infinite creative capacity the human mind is said to possess who could do it. Half the World’s falling to bits & yet millions are forced to sit around with no meaningful employment to pay their way.-(& keep their assets!)
    All this potential is stifled under an illusory debt mountain that has enforced the same lie over & over again throughout history. This latest episode is nothing new. The UK parliament pulled the same stunt on the fledgling America by outlawing Colonial Scrip before the country had even been built for God’s sake!
    Replace the debt money with credit money or have debt jubilee terms, plus stop outlawing the real economy with ever more rules, regulations, fines, fees & licenses that favor the growth of government & corporate power & we’d soon see just what bloody lies we’ve been spun in this illusion of scarcity. All for the purpose of centralized control by the few, who can soon enough find the money for destructive economic endeavors.
    Just suppressed technologies alone could keep us all busy for donkey’s years.
    It’s late & I’m tired of arguing these things which should by now be elementary to anyone who’s bothered to do their homework, & on this point I’m suspicious of those who still reason from this scarcity mindset, as it surely can’t be beyond their intellectual capacity.
    Sorry.

  • rynegold October 14, 2013, 1:41 am

    Absolutely no one will like this post…. but the event that will solve for X is really quite simple. We need a “plague” like event. This will reduce the world’s population and increase/re-establish a balance between labor and demand. Not pretty but true; it’s happened before:

    http://www.thenagain.info/webchron/westeurope/BlackDeath.html

    In part, (and of course there are numerous studies on the subject):

    “European economy and society changed drastically following the Black Death. Because so many people had died, there was a huge labor shortage. This contributed to the end of the feudal system, since serfs could often leave their manors and make a better living in cities. In addition to better work opportunities, survivors of the plague had a surplus of material goods. Many of the dead had left behind entire estates and other belongings. These goods were available through inheritance and looting. At this time, the pawnshop business, made famous by the Medici family, became extremely successful. Through these factors, Europe experienced an overall rise in its standard of living.”

    We have too many people, who have their hand out one way or another, for free food and shelter. A non-working population cannot stand.

    m

    • BKL October 15, 2013, 12:43 pm

      The plague event which you call for has been revving up for the past two years, and is about to reach critical mass. It is the disaster in Fukushima.

      There is a massive amount of spent plutonium being stored right next to the melted-down reactors. A few thousand TEPCO employees, along with another thousand or so mafia-recruited temps, are struggling to keep the radiation level down to where they can still work onsite.

      We are approaching a point of no return, where the exposed plutonium will begin to spontaneously combust, as the water boils off and the plutonium comes into contact with the air.

      &&&&&

      Fukushima is the scariest crisis the world has ever had to confront — a potential world-ending catastrophe — but the mainstream media are either too ignorant or too fearful to cover it. As you have stated, the risk is not of an explosion, but of the release of unlimited quantities of radioactive gas into the atmosphere. This will be next week’s topic in the forum. RA

      • DK October 19, 2013, 8:46 pm

        Rick, this is truly scary. I know several people involved in various facets of the nuclear industry, mostly engineers (nuclear, mechanical, electric, civil) involved in commercial electric power. Many of them change the subject every time this is brought up in any conversation, a few have told me it’s too scary to even discuss only to say the “solutions” they’ve come up with are band-aid fixes that likely won’t work and some are simply ridiculous to even attempt. ZH has had some decent coverage of the problem.
        Obviously you are right about the mainstream media being too ignorant and/or fearful, hence the enormous ongoing media blackout on real coverage. I find this very reminiscent of the Gulf of Mexico in coverage; this issue is in a league of its own though, since it has reached the point where, as of 2 months ago, the level of radiation leaking from the site is lethal enough to kill a human in 4 hours. Day to day measurements are showing levels rising 6,500 fold in a matter of days.

        http://rt.com/news/fukushima-high-radioactivity-well-335/

        [Super] Typhoon headed that way, 190 mph winds.

  • Jill October 14, 2013, 1:01 am

    Wow, great post there from the guy at Zero Hedge. Although I would disagree that there is no solution, he certainly described the problem accurately. My favorite sentence is below:

    “People, being ‘human’, might speak in homilies, but in their heart of hearts they want all labor outsourced except their own, especially when they get to the check-out counter in the store.”

    Not 100% true, but still true of the average human in the U.S.– not necessarily in all countries. Because many countries do not have the U.S. belief in extreme individualism– that it’s every man/woman for himself/herself, in accordance with the Gospel according to Ayn Rand– where selfishness is the supreme virtue. Somehow, here, even Christians believe the Gosepel of Rand more than the ones in their Bible. In some other countries, sometimes people do have a concept, and a reality, of a kind of community unknown to poor and middle class Americans.

    Of course the rich have communities. Crony capitalist welfare queen corporations have always banded together in numerous cooperative organizations, to pursue their interests together, politically and economically. At the same time, they use propaganda to very successfully divide and fragment poor and middle class Americans and propel them away from each other– full of hatred and rage toward one another– as is easily demonstrated by reading this board.

    Divide and Conquer– oldest strategy in the world– “Let’s you and him fight, while I speed away with all of your money, your property, your rights etc.”

    • Buster October 14, 2013, 1:51 am

      Very true, Jill.
      We’re all in desperate need of a check-up from the neck up if we’re ever going to get out of this place.