The ‘How’ of a Collapse Is Not Our Only Concern

Our recent discussion of whether deflation or hyperinflation will lay waste to the economy elicited hundreds of responses. Two of particular interest are featured below.  The first, from blogger Charles Hugh Smith, explains why it may be impossible to know with any certainty which of the two forces will prevail.  The second, the thoughts of a fourth-generation Texas rancher, suggests that in a crisis,  we may discover that our need for protein trumps concerns over gold, silver, Treasury paper and the dollar. Here’s Charles, in an excerpt from an e-mail I received from him several days ago:

I certainly wouldn’t want to debate anyone because my arguments are those of a trader, basically, not an economist.  Maybe we will get hyperinflation, I don’t claim to know. What bothers me is the widespread conviction that hyperinflation is “guaranteed.”  This smells like a one-sided trade to me, even if it is more of a meme than a trade.

As we’ve both said, the other issue is, how do the Elites benefit from hyperinflation?  The only answer I’ve ever received is “they’ve already bought gold.” Yeah, right. As I noted, there’s $7T in gold, total, half of which is owned by central banks, and there’s $160T in financial wealth to protect in the world. Even if gold went to $10K/oz there would be no more than $35 T in gold in private hands, and by that time, the gold in Fort Knox (or in the PBoChina vaults, etc.) would be enough to establish a gold-backed currency.  Meanwhile, the Financial Elites would have lost all their financial wealth.  Have they really transferred all their wealth out of all financial instruments and totally into gold and land?  If so, then owns the $160T in financial wealth?

This explanation — that the wealthy have already transferred their financial assets into gold and land and thus they don’t care if all money, bonds, mortgages, derivatives, insurance policies, etc. all go to zero and is wiped off the books as an asset—makes no sense because it doesn’t explain who is the bag holder to all this “fiat-based” wealth. If the wealthy don’t own all these financial assets, who does? Who did they sell it all to? Yet we know that the Financial Elites own all this financial wealth and thus it will not be in their self-interest to see it wiped out. Only debtors, i.e. Central States, want to see hyperinflation to wipe out their debt. But who considers all that sovereign debt an interest-paying asset?  The Financial Elites, that’s who, along with politically powerful union pension funds, banks, etc.

Everyone seems to forget that debt is an asset to the guy on the other side of the trade.  The debtor would love hyperinflation but the owner of the debt will resist hyperinflation with every fiber of his being — and that includes the Financial Elite who own the debt.

Only Political Choices

This is basically a “politics of experience” analysis, and very few are equipped to understand such an analysis, as it’s outside their econometric comfort zone.  They prefer a deterministic financial analysis that there are “laws” of economics which lead to hyperinflation, etc.  Meanwhile, for me, there are only political choices, a narrow band of which lead to hyperinflation and a bunch of others which do not. This kind of analysis doesn’t lend itself to refutation or confirmation by financial models of the sort being bandied about — it’s a behavioral analysis and a political one.

I have yet to see how banks and the Financial Elites would benefit from hyperinflation. Without getting too fancy, it’s obvious that holders of debt, those collecting interest on debt assets, would be wiped out by hyperinflation. Thus as a simple matter of self-interest, we can deduce they will not favor policies that lead to hyperinflation. If the owners of debt (Treasuries, mortgages, corporate debt, commercial paper, etc.) were politically powerless, then we could expect them to  be steamrolled by those who would benefit from hyperinflation.  But they are not politically powerless — it’s the debtors who are powerless, except for the Central State, and it’s beholden to the Financial Elites who have captured the political and regulatory classes that govern the State.

How Many Angels?

Maybe we will experience hyperinflation after all. I am a skeptic, not a true believer, but I am certainly open to it as a possibility. I think all the financial arguments are somewhat akin to biblical debates about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.  They are fundamentally deterministic and apolitical, while the actual process of setting policies that lead to hyperinflation is entirely political.

I have no econometric arguments against hyperinflation, I only have political ones. But since politics sets policy, then hyperinflation is necessarily a political choice. So a political analysis will trump an econometric one in my view.

But I could be wrong. As a basically poor person, I don’t have much of a stake in either outcome.

***

When Gold Wasn’t Valuable

And here, with the final word, is the rancher, who posted under the pseudonym Bed Rock:

The place I looked to see how to be prepared for a dollar collapse was in the journals of the pioneers who settled the frontiers in North America two to three hundred years ago. When moving to an unexplored region inside the frontier, and being months of hard travel away from any civilization where the necessities of life could be purchased, is basically where we all will be when commerce stops because of a dollar collapse.

Bartering works good, but money was not very valuable, even gold. The people needed a place to live that offered protection from the weather, water and food. Everything else was and is a luxury. The people who had the talents of building shelters and producing food prospered and those that came with family money either died or went home broke.

So what I took from this is, be prepared to use your hands. Surround yourself with good, honest people who have talents in the many life-saving areas needed to survive any circumstances that may be thrown at us. Raising chickens, making bread, treating sickness, making a garden, a carpenter, etc. You will know what you need for your area.

I am a rancher and produce enough beef to feed approximately 6,000 people. But having to do that without cheap fuel, fertilizer, and life-saving drugs for the cattle, I will produce much less. But protein is one of the necessities needed to survive and something the pioneers treasured. If you succeed and prosper as our great country makes its comeback, you will have moved up the ladder of social and economic ranking. Survival of the fittest, and we will be rid of all those who live off of government aid. So don’t be caught with just a lot of gold and silver when the collapse comes. Sell some and buy the tools you will need to survive so you can use the metals latter when civilization returns.

(If you’d like to have Rick’s Picks commentary delivered free each day to your e-mail box, click here.)

  • Anonymous April 19, 2011, 11:19 pm

    It is nearing the end of April, 2011. People ought to really sit down, and determine what they will need most, in the event, that the US Dollar completely collapses, within the next couple of months to a year. Think: ‘What must I absolutely have to survive?’ Water. Food. Clothing. Shelter (is nice). Medicine/vitamins. TP, soap, deoderant, etc. 90% (Pre-1964) U.S. coins, for barter. Or, 1 oz. silver coins/rounds. Bicycle for transport?

  • Chris T. April 18, 2011, 11:48 pm

    Mario
    don’t know if you’re still on this thread.
    If so:
    the housing prices you list $90-200k are at the top end almost the curent US median housing price.

    With our median income being a multiple of that in China, such prices seem anything other than healthy or realistic.

    At about a $5000 median income in China (please correct if off), that is between 16x-40x annual income.
    That is a ridiculous factor!
    The 8-11x annual income seen hereabouts back in bubble days was ntus already, but that?

    • mario cavolo April 19, 2011, 3:52 am

      Hi Chris,

      Yes these are important points to take a closer look at and clarify.

      1. First of all there is a huge population size of 1.3 B so we have to break it down. The numbers I am using are general, an estimate, they could be off and I am not quoting any specific source.

      1a. The grey market here is an additional 30-50% of reported GDP and income figures. Often when you ask a chinese how much money they have, how much they earn, what is their salary, they look at you and say, “Salary?…that’s a small part of many of our incomes. We do other things to make profits.”

      2. 800 billion + “farmers” – they are truly living in the rural countryside – a minimalist existence. With the rise of China.

      The part that nearly EVERYONE at Rick’s, yes I am CAPS to express my general annoyance to make a point, is that even many of these farmers now have alot of money and DON”T CHANGE THEIR LIFESTYLE. Many have benefitted from urban development near them, earned much more money by their entrepreneurism, by communities being built in their area. I have written before that I witnessed the farm communities building themselves new houses, all the dirt roads being paved by the govt., you think they are complaining and want to revolt? They have tremendous discipline, they save the money for their children, they keep a low profile. They keep private and trust no one outside of their community. This is what MUST be understood about China.

      People look simple and poor in China ON PURPOSE! On a trip to Luzhou in Sichuan in 2002, I met what my GF at the time told me were her best friends, and they all ran the local China mobile, the parts factory, the office, etc. They each had millions of RMB in the bank, you would never know. We were sitting in a typical local restaurant, drinking 2rmb bottles of beer, eating a huge meal for 10 people for $20.

      3. 300 middle class city dwellers – they are the service workers (retail, services, office, factories, etc.) They are on low salaries of 1200-3000rmb per month. For example, a restaurant worker in Shanghai is on a salary of 2-4000rmb. They are typically living comfortably dormitory style – six room mates living 2 to a room in a 3 bedroom apartment which is rented for 3000rmb per month, sending money home to their parents in the countryside.

      2a. Focusing on this lower/middle income service worker group for a moment, they are quite similar to the U.S. minimum wage sector; can’t get ahead, just living from paycheck to paycheck trying to find an improved situation. The BIG difference is that they do have the ability to keep cost of living substantially lower. Medical, food, public transportation, etc. all very cheap relatively, no need for a car, etc. So in fact, USD $500/month here is equivalent to USD $1500/month in the USD. That’s by the way, take home pay, not gross pay.

      Even somehow, many of them, such as one of my wife’s close friends, manages to save USD $30,000 to buy an apartment. How? A few years ago, that would buy an apartment paid in full, even in the big cities. Now we know that is a 30% downpayment and they can still afford to buy a smaller apt in 2nd tier cities.

      How? We ask again, where is the mystery money that foreigners don’t know exist? Its called “hongbao” in Chinese. Its called “under the table” in the West, and it is a pervasive part of the economy here, it IS the grey market economy of trillions!!!!

      You are a retail store manager, your counterparts are a gov’t official from whom you need the biz license,, the sales rep for products you inventory, etc. You all make low salaries, you all help each other out. You all understand each other’s situation. You all accept and give and expect under the table money as part of your normal dealings. This has been China for 20 years. The rep wants their product in your store, they’ll give you a cut. The bartender gets a cut from the liquor distributor. OF COURSE THEY DO, ITS NORMAL.
      Now imagine amongst the rich, the same kind of cash economy exists but the cash is in much higher quantities.

      The Beijing guy on that ridiculous Dateline video probably has $100,000 in the bank, but he’s on TV acting poor and simple! Of course he is, that’s what they do! You think he’s going to tell the world about his side money income, his cash that no one knows about and that everyone else does too? Chinese put on a FACE that serves the purpose, in the West its called lying. Here in China it is positioning for your own advantage in context and negotiation.

      2b. Middle Class / Upper middle class – these are the nouveau rich Chinese professionals/management/ sales people, working for the multinational companies all over the country. They are officially earning USD $2000 to $10,000 per month plus benefits. Many of them also own 2-3-4 apartments in their families which have tripled in value from $30 to $150,000 in 2nd tier cities and of course have no mortgages. If those homes are in 1st tier cities, they are worth $300,000 to $500,000 to $1,000,000, and of course have no mortgages.

      So to summarize points; then yes, in 1st tier cities, for the middle income folks, lifestyles and salaries are better than ever, but they are still cut off from homeownership at such high $300-$800/sq ft prices. This is all a very recent phenomenon in the country, happening SO rapidly.

      In 2nd tier cities, they can easily seek and purchase at $60-$80-$100-$200/sq ft , including locations 30 minutes to one hour outside of the 1st tier city areas.

      For the lower/middle income workers, its tougher than ever to purchase a home, but its also much better for them than officially reported. All Chinese keep their mouths shut about the grey economy. At $80/sq ft for example, they can purchase because they and everyone in the economy have alot more per capital income and cash than officially reported and known.

      Its interesting to empathize with the guy’s point of view in the Dateline video. On the one hand, Beijing/Shanghai prices are now the same as other major cities across the globe (tokyo, paris, NY, etc.) On the other hand, here’s a lower income guy who missed the boat to buy before the prices started rising. Many of us can say the same thing, including myself. A German friend bought in Beijing at 8000rmb/psqm out near the airport only 3 years earlier, called to tell me and we didn’t buy. Stupid. One year later prices had doubled and are now 20,000rmb psqm.

      Hope this helps to continue clarifying the tremendous misunderstands and misinformation about life in China.

      Funny, how similar to the US. both are in a way becoming two class societies of haves/have nots. However the big difference is that the middle class in China is a new, relatively rising socioeconomic phenomenon, whereas in the US it is in relative decline.

      By the way, I appreciate every single time someone comes back at me with a question or debate because it forces me to write out my themes which gives me content for coming book (s)I am planning to publish.

      Cheers, Mario

  • Cam Fitzgerald April 17, 2011, 1:08 am

    It could all be a moot point if China’s real estate bubble is in fact bursting. There is nopt a hope in a hundred that any economy will get through this unscathed and in fact this could kill the current commodity boom (food excepted).

    I have no doubts whatsoever that stocks will begin to recede and soon. Monday anyone?

    When it actually happens now is anyones guess but to have all three of the worlds biggest economies, the US, Japan and China, all simultaneously facing an uncertain economic future then this will surely drive us all into a global slowdown and recession.

    A housing bubble crash in China alone could strip a couple points off global GDP and end what has been one hell of an Asian led commodities buying spree. No way out of this one. I am out now. Goldman was right.

    • Cam Fitzgerald April 17, 2011, 3:05 am

      Since I am on the topic, I would sure like to know how Mario might spin this recent news of property prices in some Chinese cities crashing by up to Fifty percent.

      I understand that the declines are widespread across the country too. This is not just an issue localized to major cities. Wealth has been lost. This bubble is bursting exactly as I have predicted and it will surely follow a pattern similar to all other bursting bubbles.

      Now I am not trying to get on your nerves here Mario but you have recently expressed why this kind of event could not happen. Somehow China was bullet-proof in your mind. I beg to challenge those assumptions.

      With that economy revolving around construction, housing and city building (some suggest that about 60% of GDP is a reasonable number to work with) then as that country experiences a crash the implicit message we should be taking away is that few other economies will be spared the pain.

      What are we to expect of the many public companies in China who are involved in this boom and how earnings might fare? What about the companies that manufacture and supply construction materials, the services that are now at stake as buying evaporates..?

      Are those companies now going to be good investments as a slowdown in the sector develops. Will they remain profitable? Will they pay dividends?

      Now, some will instantly begin to argue about how much money the government there has, those balance of trade dollars and the overseas holdings. That is just foolish though. There is a distinction in China between public and private wealth exactly as there is here. China will likely follow a Keynsian model of stimulus and even ramp it up to evade a real economic slowdown. We need to consider revising our own forecasts of the countries growth going forward though as 9.5% seems an impossible number now.

      As most Americans have already discovered, lost equity means lost purchasing power and the end of the wealth effect until equilibrium is found again. While Chinese investors may indeed have large existing equity positions in their homes and properties that does not mean that they cannot be underwater too.

      The number often bandied about is that 30% down-payments are typical over there. That is not immunity. A 50% decline is suddenly a very meaningful number then and the blood-letting has surely not ended yet. What bubble ever ended in a period of months before a recovery set back in anyway?

      So in China, the boom has been lowered on credit and the government has succeeded beyond its wildest expectations in putting the brakes on real estate speculation. Hooray (?).

      Did they think it all through though? What of the auto industry there as sales slow? Or how about the fate of billions in foreign investment dollars targeted for nearby economies of Asia and Africa? What of commodities, the unemployment rate, government intervention and a possible Treasury sell-off as the government substitutes its own demand to offset declining domestic consumption?

      We do know that the theory of reversion to the mean following a bust is a typical outcome.

      This is obviously a judgement call in that country though as there is not a long history of private property ownership. What is the “mean” in their case? We should instead attempt to calculate aggregate prices as a ratio of average incomes and that might give us an indication of how severe the correction might ultimately be.

      As I said Mario, I am not trying to get on your nerves but as I wrote to you before “a bubble is a bubble is a bubble” and I don’t invest in them. This one just happens to be one of the biggest ever seen and so we should now prepare for all the usual outcomes.

      The news is not good.

    • mario cavolo April 17, 2011, 7:03 am

      Hi Cam!

      Its a great and important topic and I am happy to be discussing/debating it with you and everyone.

      I can’t agree with you that I ever said China’s bubble will not burst. I never said an event could not happen or that China was bullet proof.

      In a nutshell, I SAID that if and when China’s property prices were to decline by 20-30% it would have a much milder economic impact for the following primary reasons:

      1. Because of the high degree of cash, both private and public sector.
      2. A grey cash economy of $2 to $6 trillion depending on whom you ask.
      3. Much lower debt leverage – 30-50% down payments on homes that do have mortgages, while most don’t even have one.

      I make the distinction between the lower/middle classes and wealthy/speculative/luxury markets. Just like America, where in exclusive places like Newport Beach and dozens of others a prime home goes for $3 million. This is opposed to the 150 million homes in China owned by lower/middle income people valued at $90 to $200,000 ($60 – $150/sq ft.) which ALL
      HAVE ZERO MORTGAGES!! You keep forgetting that in America the lower/middle classes are SCREWED, while here in China they are comfortable, have lots of cash and can much more easily live with and adjust to any downturn in the economy. And that’s why I suggest when it comes to understanding China, people like yourself find it extremely difficult to remove that American filter, and so you misinterpret what you read to some degree, overweighting some parts while underweighting others.

      So, then with that background, where did you get this 50% plunge number from ? I just read that some Beijing prices went down in value by 26% from previous MONTH, but that’s only 10% from the previous year month on month. I would expect some declines, they will be absorbed here with far less fanfare.

      Nothing has changed to change my view that China’s broad real estate market could correct back down 20-30% after a blistering rise, that such a decline would not have a “crisis” level impact for above reasons stated.

      There are limited pockets where prices are outrageous. For example, here in Pudong where I live, my wife and did a bit of neighborhood research. I said to her “Oh those villas are probably going for US $700 per square foot (50,000rmb psqm). We then found out they are going for DOUBLE that – US $1500/sq ft (100,000rmb psqm)

      That’s a bad joke, like Hong Kong prices. So if someone turns around and tells me that luxury property prices in China have “suddenly” plummeted 50% from USD $1400 to USD $700 / sq ft, I don’t take that to mean anything at all, it sure as hell doesn’t mean the China property market suddenly crashed 50%. It was a ridiculous price in the first place and we’re talking about a very small percentage of the market where this kind speculation and outright BS is taking place. This is China’s way of playing their ponzi scheme shenanigans, they do it well too. They start throwing up outrageous number noodles on the wall to test and see what will stick.

      Its reasonable to suggest that a slowdown in China will impact globally. But inside China, the impact will be felt to some degree, far less critical. Isolated situations will look bad, like the ridiculous Dateline article on 64 million empty apartments which actually shoots itself in the foot by being so vague, there’s ONLY seven such failed communities in the whole country, so that’s little weight as a leading economic indicator. China is the world’s most rapidly urbanizing society, those apartments will fill up in the coming ten years, who cares. The focus should not be on such matters which are used and pointed out improperly and out of context. That’s the word; context, you have to understand the context in this society.

      On the commodity bubble and the GS call to exit commodities; gee, that’s not a surprise. I reported several weeks earlier that the 60 year Gann cycles indicating a major commodities top. I had been following James Flanagan’s vids…

      BUT – world demand for food is rising. WE, that is WE the world have 300-700 million rising middle class just in China and India combined. Plus a number of other factors, so even though commodity prices have shot up alarmingly high, it makes more sense to expect them to hover up in this high range. In the cases of corn and wheat both hovering in the 700’s, well could spike back down to 400 and then remain in that 400-700 range, which is still a far higher than it was previously. That’s a reasonable expectation considering global food demand.

      The bigger problem remains serious trigger events, “black swan” events. I was recently reminded by a Vanity Fair article that in the US, the top 1% now own 40% of the total wealth, and represent 25% of the annual income. Its that first number which gets me.

      I am currently short the S&P but in fact I expect Nadeem Wayalat’s recent forecast for the rest of 2011 to play out, which is that the market is correcting here with a Dow 12,000 support and then will continue to move higher.

      The markets are changing, becoming more and more part of a global economic system and the major group of people paying the price are the lower/middle income Americans, with the rest of America is doing very well, richer than ever. Why? Because over the past 40 years America rose to become the world’s superpower in every way – economically, militarily, politically. And they did great things along the way. But now the core lower/middle income class society that it was built on has been bastardized, gutted, raped, pillaged and let me use the intellectual word; marginalized by the greatest wealth grab in history. I very much like this line by Michael Moore, though I don’t follow his stuff very often “America is not broke! It’s just that the wealthy have absconded with the money! ” I continue to suggest that the lives of 150 million Americans are better than ever and that by this view, one could suggest there has been an economic/societal schism that has reached finality in this time frame and ruined America’s place as the world’s superpower. Over the coming 10 years America’s level of influence and power will continue to decline as Asia’s continues to rise.

      As I have expressed my view: Asia Rising (led by China) Meets Dollar Falling well describes the coming years.

      Cam, any slowdown here in China shouldn’t be that much of a surprise from current high 8-9-10% levels and that could easily include an overall 20-30% overall property price decline, possibly higher price declines in the vertical overpriced luxury sectors, but only 10-20& in the mainstream/2nd tier city and suburban markets. For example, Kunshan is 30 minutes outside of Shanghai. Suzhou, a really nice place, is 70 minutes outside of Shanghai, both along the same highway heading east. In both those cities prices are still in the 6-10-15,000rmb/psq meter range ($90 – $150 – $200/sq ft) While entering Shanghai, prices then triple!

      Is that any different than many places in the U.S. and Europe like New York, Miami, London, Tokyo, Paris, etc.? A property in Manhattan is millions, but 30 minutes away in suburban Yonkers/Brooklyn/ where my aunt lives is $220,000.

      Now I must mention last point about food and other inflation, here in China it IS bad and it is pinching the budgets of the low income people. But that is still relative here, prices here are still far lower than in the US. I can still walk along the street in the morning on the way to work and pick up one of Mrs. Yan’s streetside egg pancake wraps and a cup of soymilk for $.50. I can still ride the extensive mass transportation system here including bus for $.25 or subway for $.50. or taxis for only $2-4 per ride! Medical is still dirt cheap relative to the US. $2 for a doctor visit, $5 for CIPRO or ZITHROMAX antibiotics, etc.

      Sorry getting a bit off track on related matters and I’m out of time right now, gotta run!!

      Cheers, Mario

    • Cam Fitzgerald April 17, 2011, 2:43 pm

      Hi Mario,

      Good to hear from you. I did not have your exact comments handy when I started writing so I was just going from memory and attempting to paraphrase your thoughts on the Chinese economy when I suggested you thought they were somehow bullet-proof.

      I can see I was not far wrong after reading your response to me though as you are recycling the same arguments others have put forward to suggest the Chinese economy is somehow immune to the basic forces of economics.

      The ongoing premise is still that China is in fine shape and able to withstand a downturn due to the high equity levels and large down-payments of homeowners. I still disagree. By the way I am Canadian and have not filtered my thoughts based on the housing correction down South of me.

      Where I am, in fact, prices are still rising and are now exceeding the highs the US experienced pre-bubble crash. The average home in Canada cost 5.2 times the average income while in Vancouver itself the multiple is approaching 13 times income. We are already exceeding the numbers experienced in the US just prior to its housing meltdown.

      Our own correction is about nigh but has not happened yet. We await the natural outcome of ten long months of declining home sales nationally and a softening market to bring reality back to the minds of sellers and buyers alike. Many agree we are reaching a classic bubble top right now, where prices continue to rise even as sales are in decline. It is that last thrust upwards that confuses minds and makes the unwary believe that real estate only ever rises.

      Complete folly of course.

      China is no different of course. I know you and others would like me to believe that somehow the market is immunized by cash or Asian investor psychology but I am not dissuaded in my conclusion that all bubbles end the same way whether they are in LA or Bejing. They end in tears Mario and plenty of (theoretical) losses. I say theoretical because an unrealized gain that vanishes can never really be counted as a loss in the first place. If your home value appreciated 150% but you did not cash out and bank the proceeds then the wealth was only illusory. Just a myth.

      The real issue here is how large of a correction the major cities have seen and in such a short period of time. The 50% annualized number I used incidentally represented “sales declines” and not prices so I will apologize for leading you astray there by not having been more careful with my editing. That is still a very dramatic number though and I am surprised it has not received more press here. The MSM has hardly touched it yet.

      I gathered my news from Zero-Hedge initially then picked up more details from searching Asian news outlets directly (see below). I was frankly stunned by the month over month declines in prices that were reported. The words “this won’t end well” immediately jumped to my mind as I absorbed the information with a growing sense of alarm.

      Why? Because real estate is not like equity markets. A stock might swing wildly from one day to the next and nobody will bat an eye but when real estate behaves in a similar dramatic fashion then you have a signal there is big trouble brewing. A decline of 27% MoM in Beijing is massive. It represents a crash, not a correction.

      The market in the US has taken 4 years to show a 30% decline nationally. You have a problem over there that no amount of rationalizations can paper over in my opinion. Just the suggestion many make that domestic growth can continue at the blistering pace of between 7 and 10 percent annually is one of the most nonsensical fantasies and fictions alive on Wall street today.

      That is not sustainable in any economy anywhere and the longer it goes on the harder the correction will be when it finally comes. Investors may be willing to buy this fiction as long as they are making money though and plenty of otherwise intelligent people continue to feed fuel onto the fire of the great Asian miracle but I believe they are in for a rude awakening fairly soon.

      Lets not kid ourselves. When an economy like China’s is so overweight real estate and infrastructure build-out as a percentage of economic activity then it becomes highly vulnerable to shocks from both within its borders and from external forces in the worlds economy.

      When price to rent ratios reaching as high as a rumoured 22% in major cities cannot be managed by central planners then they are flirting not just with a real estate meltdown but with serious social discord. That of course does not even address the serious differences between rural poverty and the fortunes made by some urbanites or the discord arising over steep inflation and the impacts that is having on the poor.

      China is showing more signs of instability now than at any time in the past decade in my opinion and the dysfunction only widens as big cracks suddenly start to appear in a faltering real estate market.

      No, this won’t end well at all………

      Cheers to you too, Mario!!

      Some of my data was from the Housing and Urban-Rural Development Commission

      This from Zero Hedge
      http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/bernanke/China%20real%20estate.jpg

      http://www.zerohedge.com/article/observations-chinese-real-estate-sector-following-biggest-price-decline-5-years

      From Hong Kong Trader
      http://www.hktdc.com/info/vp/a/ire/en/1/2/1/1X07F0PB/Infrastructure—Real-Estate/Beijing-sees-decline-in-new-home-price.htm

    • Chris T. April 17, 2011, 9:49 pm

      “a bubble is a bubble is a bubble” and I don’t invest in them. ”

      You CAN ‘ T invest in bubbles. What you would be doing is speculating, not investing.

      Bubbles by definition are in sectors with “ever” expanding prices, and people participating in them do so in order to buy low and sell high.
      That is speculating, pure and simple.

      Investing on the other hand, is buying an assest to participate in that unerlying’s production/value added, whether that is a tangible good or a service, in other words its dividend yield.

      Because speculating has acquired something of a pejorative meaning, people recoil from the word, but it has to be nothing of the sort.
      Unfortunately, because of that denial (that one is not speculating when in fact one is), people believe they can actually get something for nothing, because all speculating is a zero-sum game.

      That too is generally denied, but that does not make it untrue.
      It is the reason why bubbles pop eventually:
      Being a zero sum game, at some point there is no one left to be transferred away from.
      Not convinced?
      The greater fool, or musical chairs, analogy is the same description with different words, and both of those are generally accepted in the bubble-context.

      Nothing wrong with speculating, one just has to admint one is doing it, and thus accept the fact that one is hoping for a greater fool.

      Dr. Katz used to cite the long term performance of the Dow and its predecessor indices as a very good proof of this distinction:
      The index traded in a range from about 50-100 for the forty years prior to the establishment of the Fed, in other words, it went NOWHERE UNTIL fiat money enabled the nominal rise ever since.

      The average yield of those equities during that time was about 7-8%, which was a premium to debt securities of about 2-3% (5% being the long term yield on those). The difference was simly the risk-premium of equities vs. bonds.

      Finally the zero-sum nature of speculating makes it obvious that its not for most people (unlike the readers here many of whom have knowledge not like most people), and why the average Joe can not speculate his way to a retirement nest egg.

      And the events of the last 1-2 decades have shown, that no amount of money-creation can change the zero-sum nature, only extend the time it takes to come to an end.

    • mario cavolo April 18, 2011, 5:01 am

      Lots of great comments and points we are sharing, much appreciated and enjoyable.

      By the way, I forgot you’re from CA and man oh man, those Vancouver prices are really insane too.

      I must express my shock at “China is showing more signs of instability now than at any time in the past decade”.

      My friend, what in heaven’s name are you talking about? China today is in the best shape as a society it has EVER been in, continuing to rise long and strong, the exact opposite of what you stated. The citizenry have trillions more in cash than they ever had before, the govt’ is doing an unprecedented, easily admirable job of rebuilding the country, the middle class is blooming on rising wages and benefits with the growth. Yes, many older retired folks are on low pensions and feeling the squeeze of inflation, but that is far offset overall in the society by the improvements in the society.

      The rich getting richer happens here too, but it is nowhere near as bad as it is in America, and it is NOT causing the DECLINE of a middle class here!! Can you not value how significant this difference is?

      Inflation is a big concern – as it would be. Real estate bubble is a concern – as it would be. But “the forces of economics” here as you put it are going UP not down as in the West. Chinese banks are lending into a rising, growing market, not a falling dead duck. Imports UP 30% plus, Exports UP 30% plus. Unless they are lying of course, but that’s a completely separate can of worms in any case with no answers.

      Consider this from a Chinavestor review “Another boost for the Shanghai Composite Index (SHA:000001) came from the financial sector. Chinese banks have been increasingly profitable as the chart on this page suggests, far outpacing U.S. counterparts in terms of profits. China’s big four banks each netted more in 2010 than Wells Fargo (NYSE:WFC) or Goldman Sachs (NYSE:GS). What message investors in China take away from record profitability is this: despite government efforts to rein in inflation, economic activity –lending—remains robust. This is good news for skeptics who feared monetary tightening will choke off growth. MY ADD: AND WITH CURRENT UPTICK TREND IN INTEREST RATES HERE THOSE BANK PROFITS WILL CONTINUE GOING HIGHER. SLIGHTLY HIGHER INTEREST RATES ARE NOT BAD FOR ECONOMICS.

      Loans issued in 2009/2010 may be at risk, but the level of those loans moving to nonperforming relative to cash and profits is estimated at 60% risk by Fitch IF the housing bubble “bursts”.

      Recall AIG issuing CDS without any loss reserves in place? The entire US banking system allowed no one to have to pay the bill, the securitization scam was the root problem complicit with the ratings agencies rating subprime AAA!!!!…this was the bilking of America, it does not exist here as a trigger. Chinese banks are actively raising interest rates and reserve ratios and will continue to do so as needed.

      And this from Savilles last week:

      “Grade A office rents rose the fastest in six years in the first quarter of this year….boosted MNC’s continuing their expansion into China…avg rents jumped 8.8 percent to $1.25 p sqm per day….this with MNC’s is “across all industries”….an additional 148,000 sqm were rented this quarter, outpacing supply for the third consecutive quarter…

      In America, the rich have absconded the cash, sucked it out of the society, 1% hold 40% of the wealth (!!!) and are mostly sitting on to it. Like Japan, there are many wealthy but the economics are stagnant.

      In China, is now the rising tide of capitalism and entrepreneurship that is just starting in the whole country, its not getting old ! Businesses and entrepreneurs are deploying their capital, using , investing it, churning it, working with it, not sitting on it. This is the greatest societal, corporate and entrepreneurial rise in world history on schedule to dwarf the rise of America over the past 50 years. That’s not rhetoric, its reality, not me cheerleading at all. I can not at all understand nor agree with your level of concern about China.

      Something more specific, though purely observation, I have followed Hurun report and also down my own small sample surveys. We as foreigners living and observing here the real estate market, which is everyone’s “big question”. We all agree that the market will flatten, maybe go down in places 20-30% from some of the higher price ranges.

      We do see that as you pointed out that “transactions” have gone down by half over the past year. Good grief, relative to what? We view that as truly a meaningless statistic. Of course when prices go much higher, the number of sales will finally flatten. But nobody needs to SELL. Even if property prices drop by 30%, virtually nobody will need to SELL.

      There is speculation and shenanigans here favoring the wealthy but very little in the economic system here compared to what took down the U.S., ; the subprime CDO/CDS nightmare orchestrated by the Wall Street banking industry.

      Gotta fly….Cheers, Mario

  • Chris T. April 16, 2011, 10:29 am

    ….and:

    BTW: because Steve used the moneychangers word:

    Being just about Easter, most here surely are familiar with the part of the bible, where Jesus goes to the temple and turns over the money-changers tables.

    From the context of the event, if from nothing else, we gather that these people must have been doing doing something wrong, but what exactly was that?

    That is hardly ever explained.

    In fact, it is a story just about like in all the threads above:
    The ruling elite, here the high priest and his ilk, wanted to get theirs from the masses.
    The direct takings, (ie. the temple-tenth, the direct payments, etc) weren’t enough, so they devised a way to get even more.
    How?
    By declaring regular money “unclean” for temple use.
    For that, temple money had to be used.
    How to get that?
    From the money changers!
    But of course, how did one get to be a money changer?
    And who permitted them to set up shop there?

    By paying graft/kick-backs to the ones demanding the temple-money in the first place.
    And no one else who was not let into this little monopoly/oligopoly could compete, because the priests simply would not deem the money “clean”.

    And guess who set the exchange rates?

    This is just another form of forced money, the way legal-tender is.
    And the changers where the equivalent of the favored institutions that live in lower Manhatten or the City.

    So, the table-turning had nothing to do with an anti-commerce, anti-business attitude on Jesus’ part at all (the way many socialists like to claim), that commerce should not take place in a holy place, but:

    He was on one level shining light on the corruption of the money changers and the whole system they served , and on a more subtle level, issuing a direct challenge to the ruling elite that held its protective hand over this system / set-it up in the first place.

    My point here being to show exactly the same mechanism then as now.

  • Chris T. April 16, 2011, 10:06 am

    Steve and Carol,

    There is no answer, because I wrote a long one last night, but during, crashed the browser. I simply can’t bother to recreate. A cop-out perhaps, but you won’t be convinced anyway.

    Two simple points to Carol:
    “….no the “free-to-chose market” will always hord the good money and spend the debased money. And hording of the good money eventually creates scarcity so that there is nothing left but the debased money.”

    NOT.
    You really do not understand the gold system I was talking about.
    I referenced Gresham’s law within a very specific set of circumstances, look at the conditions I laid out.

    Gresham’s ONLY obtains in a forced money system, a legal tender system.
    Then certainly, good money is driven out by bad.
    But that is not what I said.
    I specifically mentioned the abolishment of legal tender systems, whereby all actors are free to contract in whatever currency they deem appropriate for their transaction.

    Only a fool would accept someones worthless promise or debased metal slugs in payment rather than the real deal.
    The real thing will drive out the bad, because no one will take it, and no one is forced to.
    Thus, you would have nothing and no one to spend your debased money on.

    Conceptually this is not difficult to seen, but see here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham's_law
    quote:
    “…[Gresham’s law] is more accurately stated: “Bad money drives out good IF [my emph.] their exchange rate is set by law.”
    This law applies specifically when there are two forms of commodity money in circulation which are required by legal-tender laws to be accepted as having similar face values for… ”

    The other point is to your goldsmiths-fractioning:
    It is fraud, pure and simple and has always been.
    Did you not see what I wrote about that also?
    Enforce the law of contract.

    You seem to believe that the system mentioned will always be subverted, no matter what, and empirically you may be correct, that people will always try, one way or another, incl. and especially governments, which are now, esp. just tools of the powerful and connected.

    But you are actually arguing against the theoretical construct as not even being possible, a) by misinterpreting it, and b) by pointing to unpreventable corruptions.
    That does not invalidate the system as a system, only its implementation perhaps.

    But, if you do believe all that, then according to your beliefs, nothing good can ever be done, and any other method you could find to protect yours, will be stolen just as easily.
    Its bad enough to see the corruption and cynicism around us, if that’s all you can harbor inside too, then what’s left?

    • Carol April 16, 2011, 2:16 pm

      Chris T, I am not misinterpreting OR misunderstanding your points. They are valid point in a “make-believe” world. Can you point to one system throughout history where the “authorities” have EVER let the people coin and determine WHAT is money? EVER?

      I didn’t think so.

    • Chris T. April 16, 2011, 4:48 pm

      “Can you point to one system throughout history where the “authorities” have EVER let the people coin and determine WHAT is money?”

      First: I never said that there is such a thing as a completely uncorruptible system, which seems to be your point.
      But there is a system that can be implemented. Are you saying, it should not even be advocated for?

      Your point is no different than:
      Virtually never in history have those rights that are protected in the Bill of Rights ever really been acknowledged by those authorities, and in our own system, they have been eviscerated, ignored, tread-upon for a very long time too.
      Should we say that everything is just make-believe, and more important, simply give up advocating for their existence, or stop demanding that they be followed?
      That seems to be your approach, or at least the consequence of your argument.

      As to your question:

      a) the whole notion of using rare elements such as the PMs as coin arose over millenia, because people discovered their utility as a medium of exchange, etc.
      It didn’t come be decree.
      It is hardly a chicken and egg question, just like there was no individual who ever, out of the blue said to himself or anyone else: put the leaf of that bush in boiling water and you will have a delicious beverage, no one out of the blue said: lets dig in the ground to see if we can find something durable and rare that we can use in our communal transactions.
      Both are laughable notions, both were processes of discovery.

      More to your point recently:
      Read my line about the money in colonial times.
      –“let coin”: true, the British did NOT let the people here coin, BUT:
      — the people DID determine what to accept as money.
      Most of the currency used in the colonies was not British, but Spanish.
      For the very simple reason, that it was generally known, its quality was generally accepted, and was thus trusted by all.

      In addition, just look at all those countries where the dollar is the inofficial medium of exchange, often in the black market.

      That is a purely free choice, where the people determined on their own what money to use.
      That they put the faith in one that itself isn’t trustworthy because its fiat isn’t dispositive to your claim that people have NEVER done this determining on their own.
      In post-WWII Germany, cigarettes were currency, purely self determined…

      That elites come in an try to corrupt this process is no wonder, because there have been thieves as long as we have been cognizant

    • Chris T. April 16, 2011, 5:08 pm

      …the Sanddollar used by Native Americans.

      Finally, you use “to coin” in a fashion that means: to create.
      That is actually not even what “coining” does or is.

      To coin really only means to take the already existing and accepted transactional medium (the PM) and put it into a known and standardized form, easily evaluated by all.

      Investigate the origins of the word dollar, and you find exactly that process of coining at its bottom:

      The Joachimsthal mint started producing silver into such a high state of purity and consistency about 500 years ago, that its products quickly became a standard accepted widely.
      In those areas no one decreed their use, it arose because of the process described. People willingly took it, and other, lesser products as quickly fell out of favor, UNLESS their continued use was decreed.

  • CONCERNED DEPOSITOR April 16, 2011, 3:18 am

    Do any of you geniuses
    know what will happen
    if many big banks fail–
    and F.D.I.C. turns out to be
    a depositor´s nightmarish joke?

    —————-

    Read this (cut and pasted) info on F.D.I.C. I found,
    and tell me what you think, you ackerman geniuses–

    Section 14 of the FDIC Act:
    “(a) BORROWING FROM TREASURY.– The Corporation is authorized to borrow from the Treasury, and the Secretary of the Treasury is authorized and directed to loan to the Corporation on such terms as may be fixed by the Corporation and the Secretary, such funds as in the judgment of the Board of Directors of the Corporation are from TIME TO TIME required for insurance purposes, NOT EXCEEDING in the aggregate $30,000,000,000 outstanding at ANY ONE TIME, subject to the approval of the Secretary of the Treasury.”

    (hyphenated caps mine)
    ————————–

    So, 30 billion dollars,
    appears to be the cap
    for FDIC borrowing,
    at ´ANY ONE TIME´

    WHAT DOES THAT–MEAN?
    In terms of a potential nationwide banking failure crisis?
    Will FDIC pay EVERY failed bank depositor $100,000– in the entire country?

    ————————–

    because, you see, to provide perspective,
    In this supposed 2009-2011 “recovery”,
    150+ banks failed in 2010.
    Plus, so far in 2011,
    35+ banks have now also been put to sleep.

    So, tell me,
    how bad can it get, with failed banks,
    in 2011 and beyond,
    if repeated ´quantitative easings´, fail to hold?

    Examples Givens–IF several MAJOR banks go down,
    (shaky Bank of America, total crap Chitybank, etc.)–
    will F.D.I.C. cover their depositors up to $100k,
    as they supposedly guarantee, with stickers??

  • Rabbi Jacob Benzaquen April 16, 2011, 12:19 am

    Hi Rick, enjoy your blog and site.

    Have you seen this? Tad naive , but it does adress a core issue – honesty.

    Top Economists: Trust is Necessary for a Stable Economy … But Trust Won’t Be Restored Until We Prosecute Wall Street Fraud

    Most policy makers still don’t understand the urgent need to restore trust in our financial system, or the need to prosecute Wall Street executives for fraud and other criminal wrongdoing.

    But top economists have been saying for well over a decade that trust is necessary for a stable economy, and that prosecuting the criminals Is necessary to restore trust.

    Trust is Necessary for a Stable Economy

    In his influential 1993 book Making Democracy Work, Robert Putnam showed how civic attitudes and trust could account for differences in the economic and government performance between northern and southern Italy.

    Political economist Francis Fukiyama wrote a book called Trust in 1995, arguing that the most pervasive cultural characteristic influencing a nation’s prosperity and ability to compete is the level of trust or cooperative behavior based upon shared norms. He stated that the United States, like Japan and Germany, has been a high-trust society historically but that this status has eroded in recent years.

    In 1998, Paul Zak (Professor of Economics and Department Chair, as well as the founding Director of the Center for Neuroeconomics Studies at Claremont Graduate University, Professor of Neurology at Loma Linda University Medical Center, and a senior researcher at UCLA) and Stephen Knack (a Lead Economist in the World Bank’s Research Department and Public Sector Governance Department) wrote a paper called Trust and Growth, arguing:

    Adam Smith … observed notable differences across nations in the ‘probity’ and ‘punctuality’ of their populations. For example, the Dutch ‘are the most faithful to their word.’John Stuart Mill wrote: ‘There are countries in Europe . . . where the most serious impediment to conducting business concerns on a large scale, is the rarity of persons who are supposed fit to be trusted with the receipt and expenditure of large sums of money’ (Mill, 1848, p. 132).

    Enormous differences across countries in the propensity to trust others survive
    today.

    ***

    Trust is higher in ‘fair’ societies.

    ***

    High trust societies produce more output than low trust societies. A fortiori, a sufficient amount of trust may be crucial to successful development. Douglass North (1990, p. 54) writes,
    The inability of societies to develop effective, lowcost enforcement of contracts is the most important source of both historical stagnation and contemporary underdevelopment in the Third World.
    ***

    If trust is too low in a society, savings will be insufficient to sustain
    positive output growth. Such a poverty trap is more likely when institutions –
    both formal and informal – which punish cheaters are weak.
    Heap, Tan and Zizzo and others have come to similar conclusions.

    In 2001, Zak and Knack showed that “strengthening the rule of law, reducing inequality, and by facilitating interpersonal understanding” all increase trust. They conclude:

    Our analysis shows that trust can be raised directly by increasing communication and education, and indirectly by strengthening formal institutions that enforce contracts and by reducing income inequality. Among the policies that impact these factors, only education, … and freedom satisfy the efficiency criterion which compares the cost of policies with the benefits citizens receive in terms of higher living standards. Further, our analysis suggests that good policy initiates a virtuous circle: policies that raise trust efficiently, improve living standards, raise civil liberties, enhance institutions, and reduce corruption, further raising trust. Trust, democracy, and the rule of law are thus the foundation of abiding prosperity.
    A 2005 letter in premier scientific journal Nature reviewed the research on trust and economics:
    Trust … plays a key role in economic exchange and politics. In the absence of trust among trading partners, market transactions break down. In the absence of trust in a country’s institutions and leaders, political legitimacy breaks down. Much recent evidence indicates that trust contributes to economic, political and social success.
    Forbes wrote an article in 2006 entitled “The Economics of Trust”. The article summarizes the importance of trust in creating a healthy economy:

    Imagine going to the corner store to buy a carton of milk, only to find that the refrigerator is locked. When you’ve persuaded the shopkeeper to retrieve the milk, you then end up arguing over whether you’re going to hand the money over first, or whether he is going to hand over the milk. Finally you manage to arrange an elaborate simultaneous exchange. A little taste of life in a world without trust–now imagine trying to arrange a mortgage.

    Being able to trust people might seem like a pleasant luxury, but economists are starting to believe that it’s rather more important than that. Trust is about more than whether you can leave your house unlocked; it is responsible for the difference between the richest countries and the poorest.

    “If you take a broad enough definition of trust, then it would explain basically all the difference between the per capita income of the United States and Somalia,” ventures Steve Knack, a senior economist at the World Bank who has been studying the economics of trust for over a decade. That suggests that trust is worth $12.4 trillion dollars a year to the U.S., which, in case you are wondering, is 99.5% of this country’s income.

    ***

    Above all, trust enables people to do business with each other. Doing business is what creates wealth.

    ***

    Economists distinguish between the personal, informal trust that comes from being friendly with your neighbors and the impersonal, institutionalized trust that lets you give your credit card number out over the Internet.

    In 2007, Yann Algan (Professor of Economics at Paris School of Economics and University Paris East) and Pierre Cahuc (Professor of Economics at the Ecole Polytechnique (Paris)) reported:
    We find a significant impact of trust on income per capita for 30 countries over the period 1949-2003.
    Similarly, market psychologists Richard L. Peterson M.D. and Frank Murtha, PhD noted in 2008
    Trust is the oil in the engine of capitalism, without it, the engine seizes up.

    Confidence is like the gasoline, without it the machine won’t move.

    Trust is gone: there is no longer trust between counterparties in the financial system. Furthermore, confidence is at a low. Investors have lost their confidence in the ability of shares to provide decent returns (since they haven’t).
    In 2009, Paola Sapienza (associate professor of finance and the Zell Center Faculty Fellow at Northwestern University) and Luigi Zingales (Robert C. McCormack Professor of Entrepreneurship and Finance at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business) pointed out:
    The drop in trust, we believe, is a major factor behind the deteriorating economic conditions. To demonstrate its importance, we launched the Chicago Booth/Kellogg School Financial Trust Index. Our first set of data—based on interviews conducted at the end of December 2008—shows that between September and December, 52 percent of Americans lost trust in the banks. Similarly, 65 percent lost trust in the stock market. A BBB/Gallup poll that surveyed a similar sample of Americans last April confirms this dramatic drop. At that time, 42 percent of Americans trusted financial institutions, versus 34 percent in our survey today, while 53 percent said they trusted U.S. companies, versus just 12 percent today.

    As trust declines, so does Americans’ willingness to invest their money in the financial system. Our data show that trust in the stock market affects people’s intention to buy stocks, even after accounting for expectations of future stock-market performance. Similarly, a person’s trust in banks predicts the likelihood that he will make a run on his bank in a moment of crisis: 25 percent of those who don’t trust banks withdrew their deposits and stored them as cash last fall, compared with only 3 percent of those who said they still trusted the banks. Thus, trust in financial institutions is a key factor for the smooth functioning of capital markets and, by extension, the economy. Changes in trust matter.

    They quote a Nobel laureate economist on the subject:
    “Virtually every commercial transaction has within itself an element of trust,” writes economist Kenneth Arrow, a Nobel laureate. When we deposit money in a bank, we trust that it’s safe. When a company orders goods, it trusts its counterpart to deliver them in good faith. Trust facilitates transactions because it saves the costs of monitoring and screening; it is an essential lubricant that greases the wheels of the economic system.
    In 2009, Time Magazine pointed out:

    Traditionally, gold has been a store of value when citizens do not trust their government politically or economically.
    In other words, the government’s political actions affect investments, such as gold, and thus the broader economy.

    In 2010, a distinguished international group of economists (Giancarlo Corsetti, Michael P. Devereux, Luigi Guiso, John Hassler, Gilles Saint-Paul, Hans-Werner Sinn, Jan-Egbert Sturm and Xavier Vives) wrote:
    Public distrust of bankers and financial markets has risen dramatically with the financial crisis. This column argues that this loss of trust in the financial system played a critical role in the collapse of economic activity that followed. To undo the damage, financial regulation needs to focus on restoring that trust.
    They noted:
    Trust is crucial in many transactions and certainly in those involving financial exchanges. The massive drop in trust associated with this crisis will therefore have important implications for the future of financial markets. Data show that in the late 1970s, the percentage of people who reported having full trust in banks, brokers, mutual funds or the stock market was around 40%; it had sunk to around 30% just before the crisis hit, and collapsed to barely 5% afterwards. It is now even lower than the trust people have in other people (randomly selected of course).
    Prosecuting the Criminals Is Necessary to Restore Trust
    Nobel prize winning economist Joseph Stiglitz says that we have to prosecute fraud or else the economy won’t recover:

    The legal system is supposed to be the codification of our norms and beliefs, things that we need to make our system work. If the legal system is seen as exploitative, then confidence in our whole system starts eroding. And that’s really the problem that’s going on.

    ***

    I think we ought to go do what we did in the S&L [crisis] and actually put many of these guys in prison. Absolutely. These are not just white-collar crimes or little accidents. There were victims. That’s the point. There were victims all over the world.

    ***

    Economists focus on the whole notion of incentives. People have an incentive sometimes to behave badly, because they can make more money if they can cheat. If our economic system is going to work then we have to make sure that what they gain when they cheat is offset by a system of penalties.
    Robert Shiller said recently that failing to address the legal issues will cause Americans to lose faith in business and the government:

    Shiller said the danger of foreclosuregate — the scandal in which it has come to light that the biggest banks have routinely mishandled homeownership documents, putting the legality of foreclosures and related sales in doubt — is a replay of the 1930s, when Americans lost faith that institutions such as business and government were dealing fairly.
    Economists such as William Black and James Galbraith agree. Galbraith says:

    There will have to be full-scale investigation and cleaning up of the residue of that, before you can have, I think, a return of confidence in the financial sector. And that’s a process which needs to get underway.
    Galbraith also says that economists should move into the background, and “criminologists to the forefront”.

    Government regulators know this – or at least pay lip service to it – as well. For example, as the Director of the Securities and Exchange Commission’s enforcement division told Congress:

    Recovery from the fallout of the financial crisis requires important efforts on various fronts, and vigorous enforcement is an essential component, as aggressive and even-handed enforcement will meet the public’s fair expectation that those whose violations of the law caused severe loss and hardship will be held accountable. And vigorous law enforcement efforts will help vindicate the principles that are fundamental to the fair and proper functioning of our markets: that no one should have an unjust advantage in our markets; that investors have a right to disclosure that complies with the federal securities laws; and that there is a level playing field for all investors.
    Nobel prize winning economist George Akerlof has demonstrated that failure to punish white collar criminals – and instead bailing them out- creates incentives for more economic crimes and further destruction of the economy in the future. Indeed, William Black notes that we’ve known of this dynamic for “hundreds of years”. And see this, this, this and this.
    And when Zak and Knack – quoted above – discuss “enforcing contracts”, “raising civil liberties”, and “reducing corruption”, they are talking about enforcing the rule of law, which means prosecuting violations of the law. Likewise, when they refer to “enhancing institutions”, they mean regulatory and justice systems which enforce contracts and prosecute cheaters.

    And when Zak and Knack promote reduction of inequality, that means prosecuting fraud as well. Specifically, as I recently pointed out, prosecuting fraud is the best way to reduce inequality:

    Robert Shiller [one of the top housing economists in the United States] said in 2009:
    And it’s not like we want to level income. I’m not saying spread the wealth around, which got Obama in trouble. But I think, I would hope that this would be a time for a national consideration about policies that would focus on restraining any possible further increases in inequality.
    ***

    If we stop bailing out the fraudsters and financial gamblers, the big banks would focus more on traditional lending and less on speculative plays which only make the rich richer and the poor poorer, and which guarantee future economic crises (which hurt the poor more than the rich).

    ***

    Moreover, both conservatives and liberals agree that we need to prosecute financial fraud. As I’ve previously noted, fraud disproportionally benefits the big players, makes boom-bust cycles more severe, and otherwise harms the economy – all of which increase inequality and warp the market.
    Of course, it’s not just economists saying this.
    One of the leading business schools in America – the Wharton School of Business – published an essay by a psychologist on the causes and solutions to the economic crisis. Wharton points out that restoring trust is the key to recovery, and that trust cannot be restored until wrongdoers are held accountable:

    According to David M. Sachs, a training and supervision analyst at the Psychoanalytic Center of Philadelphia, the crisis today is not one of confidence, but one of trust. “Abusive financial practices were unchecked by personal moral controls that prohibit individual criminal behavior, as in the case of [Bernard] Madoff, and by complex financial manipulations, as in the case of AIG.” The public, expecting to be protected from such abuse, has suffered a trauma of loss similar to that after 9/11. “Normal expectations of what is safe and dependable were abruptly shattered,” Sachs noted. “As is typical of post-traumatic states, planning for the future could not be based on old assumptions about what is safe and what is dangerous. A radical reversal of how to be gratified occurred.”

    People now feel more gratified saving money than spending it, Sachs suggested. They have trouble trusting promises from the government because they feel the government has let them down.

    He framed his argument with a fictional patient named Betty Q. Public, a librarian with two teenage children and a husband, John, who had recently lost his job. “She felt betrayed because she and her husband had invested conservatively and were double-crossed by dishonest, greedy businessmen, and now she distrusted the government that had failed to protect them from corporate dishonesty. Not only that, but she had little trust in things turning around soon enough to enable her and her husband to accomplish their previous goals.

    “By no means a sophisticated economist, she knew … that some people had become fantastically wealthy by misusing other people’s money — hers included,” Sachs said. “In short, John and Betty had done everything right and were being punished, while the dishonest people were going unpunished.”

    Helping an individual recover from a traumatic experience provides a useful analogy for understanding how to help the economy recover from its own traumatic experience, Sachs pointed out. The public will need to “hold the perpetrators of the economic disaster responsible and take what actions they can to prevent them from harming the economy again.” In addition, the public will have to see proof that government and business leaders can behave responsibly before they will trust them again, he argued.

    Note that Sachs urges “hold[ing] the perpetrators of the economic disaster responsible.” In other words, just “looking forward” and promising to do things differently isn’t enough.

    As Wall Street insider and New York Times columnist Andrew Ross Sorkin writes:
    “They will pick on minor misdemeanors by individual market participants,” said David Einhorn, the hedge fund manager who was among the Cassandras before the financial crisis. To Mr. Einhorn, the government is “not willing to take on significant misbehavior by sizable” firms. “But since there have been almost no big prosecutions, there’s very little evidence that it has stopped bad actors from behaving badly.”
    ***

    Fraud at big corporations surely dwarfs by orders of magnitude the shareholders’ losses of $8 billion that Mr. Holder highlighted. If the government spent half the time trying to ferret out fraud at major companies that it does tracking pump-and-dump schemes, we might have been able to stop the financial crisis, or at least we’d have a fighting chance at stopping the next one.

    And as a former congressional aide recently said in some of the most colorful language to date:

    “You put Lloyd Blankfein in pound-me-in-the-ass prison for one six-month term, and all this bullshit would stop, all over Wall Street,” says a former congressional aide. “That’s all it would take. Just once.”

    8 COMMENTS:

    jo6pac said…
    “You put Lloyd Blankfein in pound-me-in-the-ass prison for one six-month term, and all this bullshit would stop, all over Wall Street,” says a former congressional aide. “That’s all it would take. Just once.

    THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN UNTIL THERE IS A REAL GOVT. OF THE PEOPLE IN PLACE IN AMERIKA AND I DON’T THINK THAT’S ANY TIME SOON. SAD

    MARCH 7, 2011 5:30 PM
    eric said…
    As always when the banksters try to foist some scheme that obviously benefits them and impoverishes everyone else, they have probably been making dire warnings and veiled threats that if they are prosecuted, the financial system will go down in flames.

    For example, in a post at zero hedge (http://tinyurl.com/4m5k3p5):

    “LAWLER (?): If the foreclosure process were to stop functioning entirely that would create some significant problems. Most of the – my understanding of those issues were that the processes were not followed correctly, but if they can be corrected so that they do work properly, then that’s not a systemic risk. If we simply were unable to foreclose on properties, then that could create more serious problems.”

    Although Tom Lawler is an (extremely well-to-do) economist and not a bankster, he acts as their messenger. Massive, systemic fraud becomes “processes [that] were not followed correctly,” and rather than put a stop to the fraud, the processes should be “corrected so that they do work properly.” Otherwise there will be “serious problems.”

    We should heed the example of Dennis Kucinich, who refused to sell Cleveland’s municipal power company to blackmailing banksters. Cleveland is better off today by far than if Kucinich had capitulated to their dire warnings and threats.

    If the system goes down in flames, the banksters and their ilk are the ones that will get burnt. The people need to stop believing them when they say it will be the other way around.

    MARCH 8, 2011 8:43 AM
    Blurtman said…
    Is Obama’s failure to address financial fraud and the true insolvency of the banking system preventing the economic recovery? Is he throwing the unemployed under the bus for campaign contributions?

    MARCH 8, 2011 8:49 AM
    windcatcher said…
    Trust, honesty, and integrity are closely related human traits of good character that has been acknowledged as “good” since the beginning of history.

    The opposite human traits of stealing, fraud, cheating, lying, deception, corruption, conniving conspiracy, and extortion, is “bad” human traits and considered criminal in all “short haired monkey” societies.

    That crazy David Icke thinks that the global elite are not even human but reptiles! Ha. Ha.

    After watching video of Mr. Fink, Clintons, Bushes, Obama, Mr. Holder and others and the peculiar way that they flick their tongues out, I am beginning to wonder if he is not right- maybe they are not human! Ha. Ha.

    Native American Indians would say that they “speak with a forked tongue” which oddly is reptilian. Ha. Ha.

    As Mr. McGovern yelled at General Clinton as he was hauled away from her phony “Free Press” propaganda release. “So this is America”?

    MARCH 8, 2011 1:18 PM
    Blurtman said…
    “After watching video of Mr. Fink, Clintons, Bushes, Obama, Mr. Holder and others and the peculiar way that they flick their tongues out, I am beginning to wonder if he is not right- maybe they are not human! Ha. Ha.”

    See the classic John Carpenter film, “They Live.” You may be on to something.

    MARCH 8, 2011 3:31 PM
    hungry4food said…
    We need to be VERY careful on preserving the Independence of the USA so Free market value can be preserved .

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/feb/28/financial-terrorism-suspected-in-08-economic-crash/

    http://www.rightsidenews.com/2011030312967/world/terrorism/sharia4america-muslims-call-for-un-to-be-turned-into-massive-sharia-court.html

    MARCH 9, 2011 10:30 AM
    Larry Elford, Visual Investigations said…
    I am afraid that if we let these huge, blatant crimes go unpunished, the message to the world will be “crime pays”. We cannot even imagine the repercussions down the road of giving an entire generation the idea that “anything goes”.
    They may react with violent anger, or with chaotic selfish disregard for laws. Imagine tax revolts, killings, vigilantism, which they will feel rightly justified in if a “banker and a politician” can “get away” with stealing from the country.
    If the government is found out to be in on the crimes (which is true with my own government) then we need to speak up and name them, sue them, and try to jail them. To let them go is to let go of mush of what holds society together, as was mentioned in this blog……trust.
    http://www.albertafraud.com for class action to hold power to account

    MARCH 12, 2011 9:43 PM
    Riff Gibson said…
    I’ve devised a solution to the current economic mess that uses the vast financial power of Wall Street to enact a (much) greater good. Here’s how:

    I’ve written a proposal that uses entrepreneurship on a massive scale to tackle the ongoing high unemployment problem, which has left millions and millions of Americans grasping at the last vestiges of the American Dream. Long-term unemployment is at record levels and the pace of the tepid “recovery” from the Great Recession will require years to return the country to full employment. In the mean time, government coffers are depleted while straining to address the extreme hardship, and tax revenues are greatly diminished because so many jobless folks cannot pay taxes.

    My proposal describes an entrepreneurial mechanism through which we can fund a massive number of new business ventures (to create a massive number of new jobs) by tapping the financial power of Wall Street. It is a private-sector proactive approach to remedy the high unemployment problem. Titled “A Modest Proposal to Save the American Economy: Entrepreneurial Blitzkrieg as Job Creation Vehicle,” the proposal has been published online at Salem-News.com (and various other places):

    http://salem-news.com/articles/march232011/solving-unemployment-jpb.php

    APRIL 8, 2011 4:29 AM
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  • Cam Fitzgerald April 15, 2011, 7:38 pm

    Thought this article by Charles Hugh Smith was pretty good. It just popped up at Zero Hedge

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-heres-setup-con-decade

  • Rich April 15, 2011, 5:47 pm

    Two good thought pieces with many excellent comments on what continues to be of paramount concern: Hyperinflation or Hyperdeflation?
    Therefore, the immediate likelihood of stagflation increases…

  • Peter April 15, 2011, 6:23 am

    Re: “I have yet to see how banks and the Financial Elites would benefit from hyperinflation. ”

    They will own most of the gold and paper dollars and then back the paper dollars with gold. Hyper-dollars backed by gold…

  • Jeff April 15, 2011, 2:37 am

    RR says[Inflation is the “avenue of choice” only for the indentured masses, not the lenders and rentiers. Who do you think will prevail? I continue to believe that mortgage debtors will not simply skip-and-go-naked.] SD1 says [ To my knowledge, no bank has ever made provisions in their lending criteria. So to anyone subscribing to the hyperinflation theory, all I can say is there is nothing I, and millions of other North Americans, would love more than to take $250,000 of worthless, hyperinflated money that we worked a few days to make, to pay off a mortgage that would otherwise have taken twenty-five to thirty years to repay.] I say “they” the bankers have already screwed theirselves…it’s called MERS with the resultant lack of Title……And the belief that the bankers (or however)will not allow hyperinflation……anyone want to explain the phrase “not worth a Continental”

    • Steve April 15, 2011, 5:42 pm

      Jeff, who is the actual “title” holder of a Fee Simple Absolute Deed ? Look to the word Allodial to help.

    • Carol April 15, 2011, 5:44 pm

      If they can take it away when you don’t pay the “rent” (property taxes) – IT AIN’T YOURS!

    • Rich April 15, 2011, 5:45 pm
    • Carol April 15, 2011, 6:38 pm

      Rich,

      I agree with you, MERS is total fraud but while we are at it so are ALL mortgages.

      Did you ever play the game monoply? When you are playing that game can you “mortgage” any property BEFORE you own it? No! So how is it (in the “real” world) that you can mortgage a property that you just “purchase” but have not paid for (ie you don’t own yet)? You CAN’T. However since you already paid for the property when you signed the “promissory note” you do own it but THEN like a fool you signed a mortgage to indenture yourself on a “loan” when you already owned the property (by signing the promissory note . A promissory note under UCC banking regulations = money. ).

      Now MERS does not have the title as the title was agregated with all the other titles in the mortgage pool and cannot be “unagregated” later (a complicated legal mess is what it is). Anyhow, you did not have a contract with MERS in the first place so they have no “standing” to even bring an action against you. They are a third party debt collector at best.

      Have you ever wondered WHY all mortgage companies have to bid on the property that they are supposely forclosing on at the county auction? No you either haven’t wondered or didn’t know they had to. They have to because they do NOT own the property the corporation named THE COUNTY OF XXX owns it – Always. That is why THEY can take it from you if you don’t pay your rent (I mean your property taxes).

  • Steve April 15, 2011, 1:21 am

    This discussion is all very interesting. There are two perspectives of which one is creditor, and the other debtor. Who are the net debtors, and who are the net creditors. As for net creditors, it doesn’t seem to matter which way things go.

    Maybe that is why under the Mosaic Law the charging of interest to a ‘brother’ is a crime. Maybe that is why america changed the meaning of ‘usury’.

    Another truth is that there is outright fear of two words. They are Allodial, and Allodialist. In 1832 all lands were held in allodium in the several States, and it is the opposite of British Feudalism. Today the deed is Fee Simple, which is the highest inheritable feudal title in fee an enfranchisee can hold as a debtor in possession, peon, serf, slave like British governmental form under the King/Queen. The enfranchisee will hold onto the dwelling as long as possible, and will pay the tenature, ie: property taxes as the debt of last resort. This assures the longest shearing season for the control freak.

    What is feared by those who seek control is Liberty as it existed in A.D. 1832. An Allodialist Man never fearing a tyrannical governmental form taxing him off the land that supported his needs in food, water, and shelter.

    The word Allodium cannot be found because of the fear it generates in those who seek to control.

  • Chris T. April 15, 2011, 12:11 am

    Carol and roger:

    Your replies, also to the point about coin debasement, show, that you clearly do not understand the gold standard I was referring to.

    I specifically referred to a time prior to 1910, not the pseudo gold standard, with paperr “money” merely “backed” by the metal.

    While you will obviously reject this suggestion, because you appear set in your opinions on this, read Dr. Fekete’s many comments on the subject.

    The only workable gold standard is one where the metal itself is used as a circulating medium AT THE END of a production cycle.
    In that way NO ONE controls the gold, because it is NOT centralized anywhere, as you see it under the “acked-system”.

    To Rogers poitn about the quick-accomodation: there is NO need for such an accomodation.
    The argument that “there is not enough gold” is a red-herring, because NOT every transaction requires physical coin to settle.

    What the system does need:
    a) enforcement of laws of contracts on ALL contracting parties (meaning not making one thing a multiple several liability, which is fraud, nothing less)
    b) an OPEN mint, the way originally intended by the founders
    c) NO legal tender law (which is just another word for a monopoly granted by the state)
    d) most important, bills of exchange, the real bill — for its necessary clearing function.

    When you have that in place, there is no debasement of coin, and NO Greshams law, because the free-to-chose market actor will reject the lesser “money, the debased one is actually driven out by the good one.
    You also have stable, not rising, not falling, interest rate structures. Look at the structure over the time-period I mentioned earlier.

    All this puts the power with the people, away from the monopolising elite, and widely dispersed real wealth, rather than simply widely dispersed paper-claims on centrally held wealth, is much more difficult to seize by any authority, foreing or domestic.

    All this is pro the little guy, not as you claim pro the hoarding elite.
    WHICH IS WHY the hoarding elite has not only fought, but destroyed that system.

    Do you know what coins where used in the colonies as currency prior to the revolution?
    It was a total mix of coins, Spain dominated of course, but at the free choosing of the market participants.
    Had any one of those coins been debased, it would quickly have become known, and all those coins been rejected.

    All that was needed was for the market actors to know the content of the various coins (NOT DIFFICULT to do), and to be able to have faith in coin meeting that knowledge.

    No as to the bi-metallism advocates, which I had referenced earlier by my cross of gold citation:
    They were doing nothing other than advocating for inflation by other means.
    It is true that they MAY have been acting in part as a result to perceived gold hoarding, but to any extent that may actually have been true, it was merely a sympton of the by-then ever declining quality of the monetary system.
    Those supposed multiple bank-panics back then, were nothing other than banks being caught for fraudulently issuing paper claims, itself a sympton of the lack of enforcement of contract.

    Finally, another great observation made by Dr. Katz about gold and stability:
    Look at the Dow (including its predecessor indices) for the 30-40 period prior to the real debasement (this about 1910/1920):
    It went nowhere, roughly oscillating between 40/50 and 100. Why?
    Because only the debasement of money produces speculative return.
    In a stable money environment, speculation IS INDEED a zero-sum game, and stocks are for investing, not speculating.
    (Investing= gains from the stock’s underlying actual business (the dividend, or yield for bonds);
    Speculating=gains from buying low, selling higher)
    Even a long-run yield vs dividend structure obtained:
    5% interest yield vs about 7-8% dividends, the difference account for the risk premium between the two.

    So, conclusion, you both have fallen for the progressivist trap:
    You believe you are for something the benefits the little guy / against something the benefits the elite, when in fact the thing you oppose is the thing that hurts the elite.
    (The most egregious progressives in the congress for ex. are its wealthiest members, look at Feinstein, Boxer, Pelosi, et al., even Buffet can be heard singing that song)

    • Steve April 15, 2011, 1:01 am

      Chris T @ “I specifically referred to a time prior to 1910, not the pseudo gold standard, with paperr “money” merely “backed” by the metal.”

      Please provide some factual basis that since July 4th 1776 there has ever been a legislative (for the few – legislative = from the People) gold standard for the several States. By “standard” I mean expressly a standard of value.

      I know about the F.D. Roosevelt ‘high treason’ gold dollar executive value about 1934, but; that is a value of rebellion and criminality.

    • Carol April 15, 2011, 2:23 pm

      Chris, while you are at it (Steves question/statement) tell me that we will also ALWAYS carry our coins on us and not deposit them with the “goldsmiths” who will use them to loan into the economy on a fractional basis (more loans than gold). This has happened every time in histroy that there was a “gold standard” – EVERY TIME. The money changers are always at the ready with their “printing presses” so how would we “this time is different” prevent that from happening again?

    • Carol April 15, 2011, 2:26 pm

      Chris T, sorry forgot this also.

      “When you have that in place, there is no debasement of coin, and NO Greshams law, because the free-to-chose market actor will reject the lesser “money, the debased one is actually driven out by the good one.”

      no the “free-to-chose market” will always hord the good money and spend the debased money. And hording of the good money eventually creates scarcity so that there is nothing left but the debased money.

    • Steve April 15, 2011, 5:49 pm

      Because there is no answer from Chris T.

      There never has been a ‘gold’ standard from the people, through their legislative representatives.

      The Standard of Value has been, and still is 371 4/16ths grains of fine silver in a Coin, struck as Legal Tender. This is the Standard of Value for the word Dollar.

      Eagles (gold coin) are valued in the Standard of Value silver Dollar(s). The entire base theory of a gold standard is established in treason wherein the executive F.D.R. usurped exclusive legislative jurisdiction in treasonous designs.

      This is also where many other monetary theories fail. The Dollar Value is the representation of the People to prevent “shaving” and “fractional banking”.

      Just why doesn’t anyone want to PLAY by the RULES?

  • BP April 14, 2011, 11:59 pm

    I read this site as one of many I read. But the info here is garbage. Hyperinflation is “guaranteed”? I dont seem to come across that view. I come across a view that “deflation” is guaranteed when I talk to my friends.

    Thing is, we get stagflation and not hyper or de-.

    How about this…Gonzalo puts up a “time window” and Rick puts up a “time window” for when these ‘flations occur.

    I dont want to read from some hyper inflationist that because we got hyper inflation in 2020 he was correct or from some deflationist that when 2018 hits we get some deflation – he was correct.

    Here is my time window for stagflation…. NOW until 2016.

  • Robert April 14, 2011, 10:54 pm

    One other point about my “no one wins” perspective.

    Even though no one wins under either scenario, the truth (as I see it) is that the biggest losers will be those who let their fear blind them to the quality of sound judgement.

    There can be no denying the fact that circumstances provide us with decision points almost constantly, and my own experience in life has been that I get a positive physiological response to making the right choices, and I get a negative physiological (read: stress-inducing) response to making the wrong choices.

    If you are under real stress about what the future holds, then I might suggest that you have a discussion with yourself about the choices that are available to you to correct that condition. I think if you do that with unfailing honesty, then you will realize very quickly the difference between the real value of paper and digital assets versus the value of a quality life being lived among friends, family, and other “real” assets…

    I do not fear the future. Take away the purchasing power of all my assets if you must, and I will still maintain their “usage value” until they are pried from my cold, dead hands.

  • Robert April 14, 2011, 10:34 pm

    I like Market Ace’s comment.

    I liked Charles Hugh Smiths’ commentary- very well written, but I couldn’t get past the premise that someone has to “win or lose” in either scenario.

    Frankly- if there is a deflation, then no one wins because the creditors fail to collect, and the debtors feel the oppression of the “collect at all costs” processes.

    Under the hyper-inflation scenario- the creditors lose the real, time based value of the asset that they traded for now-worthless money, while the debtor loses their ability to afford the basic staples needed to survive; remember in a hyper-inflation, food gets REALLY damn expensive.

    So, using a trader’s “win-lose” treatment of these two scenarios is simply too “teeter-totter” for me.

    Reality is stark under either scenario, and if you do not own Gold and Silver RIGHT NOW, then you unprepared for both.

    If things get so bad that Gold and Silver become worthless, then all you precious metal haters out there will be far too dead to say “I told you so” when that day comes, unless you happen to be of the extreme few who are actively stockpiling lead and brass in lieu of Gold and Silver…

    Roger and Carol- are you both good shots? If so, then I’ll look past your consternation of bullion on the day that I am desperately seeking people I trust to watch my back.

    • Carol April 15, 2011, 2:16 pm

      “Roger and Carol- are you both good shots? ”

      Robert, I am not sure what you are saying here?

      Anyhow, I am not against gold or silver as commodities. I own some which I bought over 10 years ago so I think that maybe I understand the value these items hold.

      Having said that I think they are a great store of value. That does not mean I think they are a great currency. Two different things. Currency is for trading, store of value is for saving/hording. For example, if we hord our currency then trade suffers!

    • Steve April 15, 2011, 5:51 pm

      If we trade with the banksters, they hold Liberty.

  • Oliver April 14, 2011, 10:32 pm

    KC: these pyramid schemes already blew up so many times, human history is made of them.
    There are even real pyramid games still standing in Egypt.
    Granted, this time it is way bigger. But these pyramid games can also TECHNICALLY blow through a deflation. Partial pyramid games also already blew in the USA, 1929, for instance.
    No money is just as efficiently destructive as too much money. A sudden global debt-squeeze like it almost already happened is deflationary as the flow of money suddenly arrests; repeat, it would have already almost happened in 2008. Without the FEDs flooding of the markets with almost limitless liquidity we would have been there.
    I think Rick believes in the ignition of the derivates bubble, and that this bubble will suck up so much nominal capital that it will be unfloodable and lastly lead to a full, sudden infarct.
    Rothchild, Bilderberg, Goldman Sachs and all the others, yea, they call this pyramid game Fractional Reserve System as anything fractional in finances is already moneychanging. Euphemism for a crime, which has obviously socialized itself. Also there is mercantilism and even the cruelest of all pyramid schemes defined by Wallenstein: war feeds on war.
    I think almost everyone here understands unspoken that we are all being threatened by a gigantic pyramid scheme. Rick definitely knows that as he keeps reminding us of something we don´t love to be reminded of: the gargantuan derivatives bubble resting on leverage, spell credit, margin, whatever, money someone doesn´t really have if everyone entitled would ask for it. This is precisely why Mr. Bernanke is flooding the markets with liquidity, to fend off a deflation.
    And organized crime sits at the top, too. In Italy, they even managed to turn a country into a media-dictatorship.
    Then there´s the G7 and G20 mafia and these people have the power to kill. Putin wouldn´t mind killing a Rothchild, no problem.
    The population of our planet is a pyramid game: need breads on need.
    So the picture is just a tad more complex than a book and two videos.
    Some of the grandest leverages of human society came not from banksters, but from good willing scientists, like Justus von Liebig in agriculture and James Watts and Daimler and Ford.
    The banksters are a modern discrace, and whether the shadow-banking system is run by sinister organizations or idiots doesn´t really matter, so long as a lack of rule of law even allows for the phenomenon of a shadow-banking system, we haven´t achieved liberty, yet; and no free market or even capitalism; but just as dangerous are forever debt-making politicians, who just wish to be reelected and are not man enough to be the least bit selfless or at least professional in terms of their oaths.
    But if the people of America and the rest of the world don´t do anything….

  • market Ace April 14, 2011, 9:37 pm

    I think we can forget the effects of hyperinflation on the eltists and whether it is good or bad for them. The political ramifications are also completely secondary. The only straight out mandate of the FED is to bolster the wealth of their elitist banker owners at any cost and what happens to America our people or even the politicians be damned.

    Why would elitist bankers worry about their side of holding debt that is defalting in value when they are protectd by FED bailouts that just print money out of thin air and dump losses on the taxpayers?

    Liquidity is the key to keeping Zombie banks appear to be solvent, to allow them to accumulate hard assets with huge leverage and to feed the system enough liquidity to allow them to collect on their giant derivative bets – just as was done in 2008. This goal will be met by the FED whether it causes deflation, inflation or hyperinflation. Bernake could care less.

    Then the elisit could truly win the end game when the dollar, that everyone is dumping and giving them for almost nothing, suddenly gets some gold backing and surges in value (purchasing power) and coupled with a gold revaluation could instantly create one of the greatest shifts in wealth from the people to the elitits in the blink of an eye.

  • PhotoRadarScam April 14, 2011, 8:02 pm

    Found an interesting chart of recent price changes:
    http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/04/what-is-really-inflationdeflation-items-5/

    • Rich April 15, 2011, 5:25 pm

      Nice PRS…

  • Jim N April 14, 2011, 6:36 pm

    I so look forward to each RA article. They cover not just the financial and economic realms but also about the more important ones as well. Like all of us, i have tried to formulate my opinions, back them up in my own mind.

    While i do appreciate the valid and thought provoking “discussions” about different issues including the “elite”, “them”, “Hyper vs De” and the like, i have come to conclude, like many here, that i just don’t know for sure how everything will really work out. What i detest is the “backbiting” and insults that people hurl at each other in the name of argument. When that happens then their arguments, in my eyes, become pretty meaningless. We can have a difference in opinion, so be it! My wife and i often reach this state! I found myself getting pretty disgusted at the recent ZH and Lira attacks when RA presented his deflation arguments and they attacked him personally.

    I just wonder now how “really” orchestrated the eonomic path really is by one group. I am now thinking that there are many influential “thems” in the world that have been trying to direct world affairs as they want. But things don’t always work out the way they plan or intend. It is a great observation to note that there isn’t enough gold in the world for them to buy it all. Also, i don’t think things are going the way they planned ( kinda like Japan’s Nuclear issues that are not going as planned).

    Seems to be that balance is something that seems to come up again in my life. When i get “too far out” on an extreme, whether it be on a chart, or in difference aspects of my life, i will naturally (but not willingly ) revert to a more balanced state. As i look at the differnt economic “bubbles” that are bursting due to an extreme of debt and greed, i am seeing a reversion back to balance. Maybe another word for this is “sustainablility”. When i think of RA’s argument of deflation, this is what i see….a return to sustainable balance. Debt has to defaulted on or paid back.

    How that all happens in reality i don’t know for sure. The elites are certainly at war, like a chess game, strategizing ways for them to fulfill their lust for more power and control over others. They have been doing that for thousands of years. And make no mistake, people get hurt because of it.

    I am done being angry at these shadow groups. I have now been positioning myself personally, along with family and friends for different possible scenarios of world events that are caused by the global chess moves that have or will take place. I am trying to put my energy where it counts, helping friends and others ( and i think this forum is the best one in this regard) to think out their opinions, and then to act as appropriate. I fully agree with Bedrock on his observations on the protein issue. While we can’t feed 6000, we can feed and sustain quite a few folks. If ww3 comes in any form, it will be hard for everyone. No getting around this. Those in the city will have it worse. Much worse. I hope i am wrong.

    I for one am done being discouraged in all this and am choosing to look forward past the chaos. One of my personal goals is to live a quiet and peaceful life. Not there yet! But am now focusing on what i CAN do in the present world circumstances instead of battling against what i can’t do and living in frustration and anger.

    my best to all,
    Jim

  • JimK April 14, 2011, 6:17 pm

    Correction to above post:

    ‘they’ are like drunk teenage pirates piloting a Suez-Max supertanker in a Hurricane – lots of CONFIDENCE (not competence), but little foresight and no experience of successful end-games.

    • Bed Rock April 15, 2011, 4:28 am

      Jim,
      We will have to do just as our forefathers did in Texas 200 years ago with the Indians and Mexicans. Defend ourselves by whatever means necessary. It will all come back for a while to taking care of ourselves, or friends and our love ones. There will not be any government agencies to do it for us wherever we live.

    • Steve April 15, 2011, 6:09 pm

      Bed Rock, @ “We will have to do just as our forefathers did in Texas 200 years ago with the Indians and Mexicans. Defend ourselves by whatever means necessary.”

      Since when is armed aggression, outright murder of women and children, by an aggressor invader “. . .Defend ourselves. . .”. Or, anything but stealing land and culture by armed abuses? What happened is history. The Native Americans were defending themselves from the violent butchery of inhuman beasts who established scalping, and torture of Indians, very early in American History, as a means of land theft for economic reasons.

      That is not how it all started on the East Coast when the whites were careful to establish “title” to lands by actual purchase and trade. Let us get the story and history straight. The U.S. government killed the Bison to starve the Indian people to death. When that was not quick enough they used small pox, whiskey, and other diseases to kill the Natives. (actually the disease introduction came in 1830’s, the killing of Bison later by government men) When that didn’t work the volunteers went in and butchered children, women, and old men, cutting them to pieces and adorning their uniforms with women’s female parts.

      Defense Sir; I will never beg your pardon for such disinformation, inauthenticity, and disingenuiness as saying outright wholesale murder of Native Americans is “defense”. The Texicans won by use of the most abhorent of abuses against other living people and cultures. Texicans were not defending themselves, but; they won didn’t they.

      I wouldn’t brag about being the kind of butcher who killed women, children, and old men by burning, starving, beating, stabbing, and shooting of unarmed individuals. Read your history. Look at the white flag of Black Kettle and his unarmed warriors, women children.

    • Bed Rock April 15, 2011, 6:40 pm

      Steve,
      Read the journals of the actual people who moved here. The Indians were savages and even treated their own people very, very bad. The Indians had more slaves than the southern states had. They just were not bad enough to out fight the Texans.

    • Steve April 15, 2011, 8:43 pm

      bedrock, I wrote a very long response based upon the Indian Culture History of the Americas going back to 1600, and 200 years of white/spanish abuses of the Indians in your country. This dang site blew the post.

      The Indians held the land for 10,000 years before the Jusuits came and enslaved and murdered them from 1600-1800. The spanish sacking of central America and our Southwest is well documented, and went from Mexico to Oregon (Blue Mountain gold 1500’s), up the Missippi, and from Florida across the Southwest. If the history is not know to you, read. As to the Plains Indians, read Maximillian, Bodmer, Catlin, Maile, Black Elk, Chief Joseph, and see that the accounts of the Indians in regard to the Little Greasy Grass are true, and the story of Custer the lies of whites and butchers. (thanks ground penetrating radar). Knew an Elder from the Big Thicket/Texas. Now, she would change your mind if she had not passed.

      Once the history of the Indians are in place. The federal government allowed/sent whites to texas to take it from the Indians who had possession for 10,000 years. The Indians defended their Lands. The white interlopers wrote their thoughts based upon what the Spanish/whites had taught the Indians for over 200 years. Whites scalped Indians to obtain bounty from the french and english. Jesuits murdered and enslaved from 1500-1800 killing in the name of the Holy Se, who by Papal Bull owns all Lands. Plains Indians found honor in ‘touching’ an enemy, taking his horse, taking his weapons, because GREAT is the man who can take the weapons of another and not kill him. NOT VERY WHITE IS THAT HONOR?

      The Indians of Texas defended their lands against the whites sent by the federal government in the 1800’s. The same are going to come after you bedrock. If one wants to know how to survive under the worst case senario, study the Indians that lived on, or near your ranch. Understand them, and one will understand what the bottom line is. Hope for the best, expect the worst. The Indians defended the Land, and lost. Let us hope bedrock does not loose his defense against the common enemy of the Indian, and now bedrock.

      I believe the first step to winning is accepting that the Indians were defending their culture against a federal government. Now bedrock is in possession of what was the Indians, and what comes is the same abusive power. I believe texicans can defend what they possess from the federal government. There is simply no way to get to a point where defending against the owner/Indians is authentic. What the Native did, does not excuse the murder/butchery of the texicans in taking for the federal government.

      Now the texican faces defending himself against the same enemy that came to steal the possession of the Texas Indian.

    • Bed Rock April 15, 2011, 11:12 pm

      Steve,
      I just said we would defend our selves by whatever means necessary whether it be indians or one of your make belive foes . If I get killed doing so as many other Texans have before me, then I gave it all I had to give here and will move on to the new body God has promissed to his belivers.

    • Steve April 16, 2011, 12:51 am

      OKay bedrock, we can agree on the last statement made by you. As for me, I have served 10 years stateside, as has my family right back to Concord Bridge A.D. 1775 when John and Joseph took the powder and cannon to the Bridge, and then did the same to the British in Boston. (Maryland 1688 if it matters) Name a War and we were there including my son who served in Desert Storm (not a war), even if under a bushy lie. As a 18 year old Marine he did his job. More than that I am fighting in the courts right now over the Sovereign in Common, Allodial Rights, and the fact democracy is a tyranny run by despots. I am under attack by slaves who don’t even know the difference between a Republic and a democracy of tyranny and despots leading to destruction, Federalist Paper #46, let alone what corporate enfranchisement under “use” by Roman Civil Law means. All these enfranchisees know is; that guy can’t because I can’t, don’t tell me what the Law is, the prosecutor said. . .blah !!

      Please don’t dish upon the Native Americans who were just defending their land from foreign invaders starting over 629 years ago, and who are now rounded up on ‘res’ as ‘wards of the federal government’. My point is that bedrock may be required to fight the same invaders that the Indians fought in defense. I put forth the very long justification to show Spanish terror starting in the 1500’s, Jesuit terror/murder across Texas and the Southwest for 250 years before the texicans came invading. I also documented the Honor of ‘not killing’ in the Plains Indians in the Horse Period 1600-1800. And I documented that most horror learned by the Indian came from the whites including bounty scalping. Slavery, check out Hebrew Law, and the Mosaic Law. Your congress is slaving you – why is it bad for the Indian, but; not the jew, or the congressional delegation? I’m picking clean bones because the statement about defendnig against the Indians is insensitive, not realistic, and many are my friends down there in the South / West. I heard the stories about what the Japanese did in WWII, and I heard my grandmother tell what happened from 1941, until 1944 when my uncle was killed by the Japs in the South Pacific. I just watched “The Pacific” and it supports what my dad said. My uncle’s unit was offered 500 cash for a live Jap prisoner – no bounty was paid. I saw some gold teeth along with my uncle’s Bronze Star (Oak Leaf Clusters) and Purple Heart. What the invaders in texican wrote was the invaders perspective after the Indian was abused for 250 years by the Spanish, and the Jesuits. The Japs abused my uncle’s men in ways you do not want me to write, and in turn they defended themselves with like horror. The Japs of my grandmother are now Japanese friendlies. The Indians are now confined to “res”.

      I believe you said you intended only to say you would defend what you believe to be your land, and you will help your neighbors. The Indians were invaded and fought the best they could, after being taught the rules of engagement by the Spanish, the Whites, and the Jesuits. What the texican pioneers wrote was merely a reflection of the 200, maybe 500 years of abuse by foreign invaders to destroy a 10,000 year old culture. I know these People, and they deserve to be DEFENDED.

  • JimK April 14, 2011, 6:12 pm

    Readers of Chris Laird (prudentsquirrell.com) heard all about how to prepare with getting a small farm, etc. for years – then Laird’s farmhouse was broken into and he changed his tune. And the farm rustling in Great Britain that was in the news a couple of years ago. From above and commentary, I agree – Protein, Water, and all other food will become precious – skills providing basic needs will be valued most, and those with the fire-power will make the rules and bully the rest. What will a title to a farm mean? What does the title to my urban house mean when I pay 10k per year in property tax?

    WRT Hyper vs Deflation, the idea that ‘they’ won’t let hyper happen gives them too much credit – ‘they’ are like drunk teenage pirates piloting a Suez-Max supertanker in a Hurricane – lots of competence, but little foresight and no experience of successful end-games. And what if their goal is simply the accumulation of real assets and they care more to preserve their immensely profitable role as brokers who skim off of every transaction than whether the currency goes up or down – i.e., preservation of the system – and their weakness is in trying to ‘lock it down forever’ which will, with any luck, end like the goose who laid the golden eggs – collapsing around them as they devour each other.

  • laurent April 14, 2011, 5:54 pm

    Larry W, we have to substitute the term “Financial Elite” for “Luciferians.” If one stops at the moment in time when the final grab is positioned by the Elite to gain all the wealth, it does not define the game being played. It is final control that is sought, the control of your soul. If one does not climb the ladder to the last rung to see who sits at the Rothschild round table plotting the end game, and does not see that Satan chairs these meetings, one can not understand that everything being put in place now, is calculated, planned, and no, they will not fail. Sorry for the bad news. They are using supra-powers to make decisions, and therefore we must counter with supra-powers. Anyone who assumes that these Luciferians do not have the smarts or resources to gain complete control will need to get connected with the original plan that God had for His creation and the ensuing plan that man decided to draft instead. To Rick and all participants, please forgive me if this deviates from the direction of the thread, as I humbly feel to include the biblical overtones to this game. The usurper of the WhiteHouse has no American blood in his veins, and no American flesh in his heart. He is muslim, hired to take down America, chosen and nurtured by these elite. Respectfully yours.

    • nonplused April 14, 2011, 6:42 pm

      There is no person named Satan. And I can’t believe anyone who can type still seriously believes that they can continue to abuse our intellects with mythical creatures no more real than say the various Greek gods of old.

    • SATAN April 14, 2011, 8:00 pm

      nonplussed–I DO EXIST.
      I EXIST at the extremes
      of ALL human psyches.

    • Larry D April 14, 2011, 8:02 pm

      Actually, since his Dad was a foreign national and his Mom was an American, the usurper has at least 50% American blood in his veins, genealogically speaking.

      @nonplused,
      Satan isn’t a person. Didn’t you see The Exorcist?

    • Steve April 14, 2011, 8:58 pm

      Are you sure Obama’s mother had not given up U.S. Citizenship to marry an African, and/or muslim ?

      Beyond that Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen because his loyalites are to two Nations via ‘dual’ citizenship (if valid). Not to mention he cannot get to Article II, via; Article IV, sec. 2, Const.

      Don’t forget that Obama traveled to Pakistan, when only a foreign national could, and Obama took positive steps to abandon citizenship in obtaining college/university aid.

    • Larry D April 14, 2011, 9:05 pm

      *genealogically speaking*

    • Steve April 15, 2011, 12:52 am

      “genealogically speaking” missed that – thanks. Now I know that Obama’s mother was an American Indian (native), or that we all came from the same primoral soup, so what the heck. I smiled, thank you.

    • Jamie Dimon April 15, 2011, 6:05 am

      Whaddya mean I don’t exist?

    • Rich April 15, 2011, 5:18 pm

      Ephesians 6:12~
      For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].

    • Steve April 15, 2011, 6:17 pm

      nonplused, from the response above – it must be believed that the Framers were looneys, as is the Law something for looneys. You are a g-d unto yourself knowing all, and knowing better than the Framers who believed in the Mosaic Law.

      The theory of Marx, and mobocracy should produce great anarchy.

      Thanks Rich, for the Word

  • KC April 14, 2011, 5:47 pm

    Everyone keeps making vague references to the “Elite”. However, if you don’t know who the elite actually are, and what their agenda actually is, it’s impossible to say that they would not want one thing or would want another thing.

    In fact, the “elite” are not any of the people you hear about. The ones you hear about, rich as they may be, are merely front men for those who are the power behind the scenes. If you want to know who they are and learn about their actual agenda, I recommend a book called “The Naked Capitalist” by W. Cleon Skousen.

    The actual elite, are the behind the scenes owners of the various Central banks around the world. These central banks are privately held corporations and the identities of the owners are, for the most part, a secret. In our country, the Central bank is called the Federal Reserve.
    If you want to learn more about this, I recommend a 3 hour video you can see on YouTube.com. It’s called; The Money Masters.

    The thing that most people fail to understand is that, BY DESIGN, our debt based monetary system MUST eventually end with a hyperinflationary collapse because it’s sustainability requires infinite growth which is impossible. In other words, it’s a pyramid scheme and, like all pyramid schemes, it must eventually collapse when you run out of new people/money. If you want to learn more about this, I recommend a 3 hour video called; The Crash Course. You can see it at ChrisMartenson.com or you can read the book which is more detailed.

    The real “elite” already know that a hyperinflationary collapse is inevitable. But they don’t care because they have so much wealth that a collapse would simply enable them to obtain even more wealth by buying up more assets for pennies on the dollar after the collapse. In fact, they are so wealthy, the acquisition of more wealth doesn’t interest them. Now, it is the acquisition of power that drives them. Because the see a world wide economic collapse as a means to achieving a one world government which they will control, they are doing everything they can to hasten the inevitable economic collapse.

    The three information sources I have cited will give someone enough of an overview to have a basic understanding of what is happening with our (and the world’s) enonomy. If you haven’t read the one short book ( 120 pages) or watched the two videos, please don’t give me your OPINION because you don’t have enough information to be entitled to an opinion. Do some homework first and then we can have an intelligent discussion. And, that includes you too,
    Rick.

    • Steve April 14, 2011, 5:56 pm

      The problem, see; the mirror.

    • LOGIC April 14, 2011, 7:51 pm

      KC–explain the apparent contradiction of these 2 statements you make, within the same paragragh.

      ¨The real “elite” already know that a HYPERINFLATIONARY collapse is inevitable. But they don’t care because they have so much wealth that a collapse would simply enable them to obtain even more wealth by buying up more assets for PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR after the collapse.¨
      (CAPS MINE).

      Question– IF you have a ¨HYPERINFLATIONARY collapse,¨ HOW can you buy ¨more assets,¨ with ¨PENNIES on the dollar¨?

      I mean, in hyperinflation, dollars are practically worthless, so, how can PENNIES buy any assets?

      However, it seems to me, that your argument is 2-staged, for in order to buy with ¨pennies on the dollar,¨ you must first have a SEVERE deflationary situation, correct?

      And then, AFTER you purchase almost all the assets cheaply in a DEFLATIONARY depression, THEN and only then, you inflate away full-throttle, right?

      This would be done in order for each of your assets then to be worth unbuy-able fortunes–so you can then turn nearly all humans into your pauper serfs (to work your land, businesses, rent from you, etc.); thus obey you always, since you have them in a bread-to-mouth slavery hold? Sort of like old czarist russia?

      I am trying to comprehend the full monetary-power logical implication of what you wrote–since it appears to imply deflation first, and inflation second (in order to buy assets cheap, then make the expensive); with the ultimate intent of acquiring perpetual daily control, over the majority of lives.

      Is this what you meant, or is it something else?

    • Rich April 15, 2011, 5:15 pm

      Pogo: We have met the enemy…

  • Larry W April 14, 2011, 5:08 pm

    I question the continued assumption by Rick that the financial elite have the ability to control the outcomes of the financial world. No human has the wisdom to to predict the outcomes of chaotic times.
    The insights of how this universe is constructed, that have been discovered in recent decades in the field of Quantum Physics has for the most part fallen on deaf ears in this culture.
    Fact: There are no local events in this universe.
    Fact: Everything effects every other thing in this Universe.
    Ponder these facts when you claim to be able to predict the future of anything, much less the already chaotic financial scene. It is laughable to consider that the human mind, with it’s computers, can plot and control the future with any predictability. At best sometimes you can get lucky. What you can predict is that human greed always, eventually self destructs. That is a practical reason to own some gold .

    • Rick Ackerman April 14, 2011, 10:34 pm

      Set aside the idea of an “Elite” and think, simply, about the guys who hold our mortgages. They needn’t be omnipotent or conspiratorial to powerfully suppress the hyperinflation that would effectively ruin them. As someone has noted above, these guys write the rules — wrote a so-far 70,000-page tax code that is not intended to benefit the little guy.

    • Carol April 14, 2011, 10:58 pm

      Rick,

      who owns “our” mortgages? Well as of now all the “bad” mortgages are owned by the Fed Reserve having taken them over to help their buddy bansters out. Now will Benny let those mortgages get paid off with confetti money? Remember the taxpayer is on the hook for all “losses”. Would there be any losses if the were hyper inflated away? Would benny and co. be ok if those “bad” mortgages go into the dumpster? Heck as it is right now when any of those “garanteed” forclosed homes get sold Benny and his boyz make even more money because of how the deals were structured. So IF money is their object then they will do whatever they can to “sell” those homes even at a loss. BUT if power and control is their objective (which it is) then they really could care less what happens to those “loans”.

    • Steve April 15, 2011, 7:02 pm

      The Lord of Lands owns the Land under the Fee Simple Absolute Deed. Fee Simple is only the highest inheritable deed held of a slave, where once roamed allodialists, holding allodial deeds (1832)

  • Marc April 14, 2011, 5:07 pm

    Carol criticized the idea “that the monetary system and the economy will be ‘all right’ if we just go back to using PM as the basis of the money. . . . Any ‘gold bug’ who thinks going to a gold and silver backed currency is the solution to our problems really really really (is that emphasis enough to move you?) needs to watch ‘The Secret of Oz.'”

    I, for one, have no interest in a “backed” currency. I want to return to the dollar BEING 371.25 grains of silver. For convenience you could have notes issued for actual silver held, which would make sense for your wallet, but prudent people could keep their savings in physical silver.

    Of course, with silver having indsutrial uses that cause typical commodity fluctuations, it might make sense to have a gold currency instead. But either way, it cannot be bi-metalic in the historical sense. There cannot be a set exchange rate between the metals. They must be free to fluctuate in the market against one another. So if both were recognized currencies, you’d have to have dual pricing on items (which is no big deal — just travel to a country that has a lot of foreign tourists and you’ll see many items quoted in more than one currency).

    • Carol April 14, 2011, 5:27 pm

      Marc,

      Study history! Using PM in the form of coins is no different and can and has been debased right along side of the PM “backed” paper currency.

    • Steve April 14, 2011, 5:51 pm

      Yes, and “embasement” was high treason causing the executive who did it to loose their heads. The issue is the representation in congress of the face of the individuals in society.

    • Steve April 14, 2011, 5:53 pm

      Carol, why no go to the study of “shaving” by the local “jeweler” who used to “bank” the Coin of the locals in his safe? Isn’t bankster shaving why we have the edge we now have on Coin?

  • laurent April 14, 2011, 5:03 pm

    These uncharted territories require us to think in uncharted terms. We must look beyond the topic of wealth now. It does not matter to the Elite if wealth completely disappears from both their pockets or from our piggy banks, as long as the process gives them power over the people. They are positioning themselves to control food, water, and eliminate freedom. Just put a price on a dry crust or a glass of water as one sits on his open safe waiting for an offer. At this stage of the game, Def or HI is of no consequence other than for a short transitional time. When we line up for third down and one yard to go, they blow the whistle and cancel the game as they bring on a downpour. They have “ALL” the power and make all the rules. So why do I have one oz gold maple, 1000 oz silver maple, 4000 sq. ft garden plot deer fenced and marmot proof under lock and key, just finishing chicken coop for laying hens and fryers, little barn for three or four hogs,……..to form allies when needed, and mitigate the coming tribs. But on the long run, although my fight will be considerable, I know ‘they’ will win this side of the green…….. but not the other.

  • Nobody April 14, 2011, 5:01 pm

    Sorry, I’m not following Ranchers logic at all.

    The entire world does not run on USD, dispite the smoke and mirrors that it does.

    The other side of the trade is simple, get out of the US. The “side” is the border of the US, as Jim Rogers and others have been saying for some time now.

    I’ve not heard folks saying all currencies are going to hyperinflate, just the USD. Which of course does so against other currencies. The transfer of wealth out of the US (by the “elite” etc) has been mentioned by many and again reinforces that Ranchers numbers need to be adjusted not for world wealth/gold but only that in the US … What is still here.

    Another example would be the MSM reports of China and Russia trading direct and no longer using USDs, Iran trade with China is second only to China’s Euro trade with the EU, etc. It has been pointed out those acts alone could cause hyperinflation. In other words countries direct trade, rejecting USD/Futures markets, would cause so many USD to flow back to the US that hyperinflation must result. This again ties into the idea that the wealth of the US “elite” has allready been move out of the country and out of USD. And it can come back in, with dramatically more purchase power, after a good run of hyperinflation = Motive (This is also an interesting arguement aginst gold and silver, will other currencies drastically surpase metals in buying power?).

    Given how much I’ve read in the MSM, and alt media, supporting that perspective I keep looking for the massive sponge that could counter it. How does one soak up all those USD to prevent hyperinflation from dollars being sold as other countries no longer use it for trade?

    I guess starting WW3 by invading oil rich countries, running up oil prices, and then force it’s sale in USD, might do it – The arguement some make that oil is the real world currency. But inside the US the rubber band is likely to finally snap from most people no longer being able to afford anything, such as food … My point being it’s an ugly picture either way and in the end I don’t see other countries interest in having anything to do with USD, and that’s likely going to happen very soon.

    • Steve April 14, 2011, 5:26 pm

      Someone has to take “receive” that valueless foreign holding of federal reserve notes stateside. And the frn needs to get into the hands of the wage earners to cause the hyper-inflation. Go figure, there is a way to somehow take the holdings of frn in the hands of other governments and get it into the hands of workers stateside? The hyper-theory seems to stem upon a scheme to get more frn in the hands of the consumers in the U.S. Don’t know how that will happen, but; as some already said – the guys in housing debt are going to like it, and the banksters, not so much.

      I’ll bite on an attempted slow inflation attempt by the fed. Chinese deflation has kept prices of products low for the past 15 years. The stopper is WAGES, either low/stagnet, or heated. Wages are gone “unemployment”, or stagnet here in the U.S. What is the possibility of ramped up wages in the U.S. ?

    • Nobody April 14, 2011, 6:00 pm

      >Someone has to take “receive” that valueless
      >foreign holding of federal reserve notes stateside.

      Why? What if they don’t?

      I beleive when there are more sellers than buyers, values go down.

      Checkmate.

      If the money comes back, buying power goes down, and if the money CAN’T come back, buying power goes down.

      Again, the statement reinforces what many have claimed, the smart money (the “elites”) already found buyers. It’s the last buyers that take the loss, as they become sellers, or as you point out they TRY to find buyers …

    • Bed Rock April 15, 2011, 4:17 am

      Nobody,
      Does that mean you are short and fat or does it mean you are just lonely ? : ) IMHO shortly after the dollar crashes, all the fiat currencies (that is all but one currency ) will also crash as a result of the enormous amount of credit derivatives that are priced in dollars held by foreign countries and the snow ball effect on them.

    • Steve April 15, 2011, 6:22 pm

      It is he who is a debtor who will loose. The deed/title is in Fee, to a debtor in possession, who is a tenant, while the Lord of Lands stands under the Law of Escheats.

      Adverse Possession is all that matters, after force.

    • Nobody April 15, 2011, 7:50 pm

      >as a result of the enormous amount of credit derivatives that
      >are priced in dollars held by foreign countries and the snow
      >ball effect on them.

      Perhaps that is what these bribes, errrr, loans, were about:

      http://www.zerohedge.com/article/bernanke-provided-billions-loans-gaddafi

  • Jacques Redou April 14, 2011, 4:39 pm

    -Central Banks of developed world will cut a deal with each other. IMF SDRs or equivalent will be used to settle international trades. The same bastards that create dollars will have control of creating SDRs. They will stay in power and thus cement their power over All politicians internationally.
    -Euro and Dollar will just be called the New Euro or the New Dollar and maybe change color and have less zeros on them. People will be forced to swap them out.
    -Fed.gov is seeing more and more of the economy going underground. They will, at some point, get rid of cash altogether. This will be opposed by the bankers who are laundering drug money. The bankers
    will switch over to profiting from the pharmaceuticals.
    You will see a big Anti-illegal drug campaign at that point.
    Fed.gov already buys most of the drugs that end up
    on the street. It was written into law.
    -The rancher will get diesel, fertilizer – whatever he needs to produce. He will also get a sales price fixed
    by Fed.gov.
    -If you want to understand what is coming – just look at the old USSR. Party Apparatchiks did not NEED money – they had privileges. Clinton did not have any money, he just makes a speech for $100,000 a pop. Baby Bush did not have any money.
    His dad’s buddies gave him a piece of a sports team
    which he later sold at a big profit. Similarly, Obama
    will make speeches or write books. He will not be poor. If you are In The Club – you will be taken care of.
    – US Gov’t apparatchiks, Fed Apparatchiks, Wall Street Apparatchiks ARE being taken care of, and WILL BE taken care of. Even though their “Bank” is
    Insolvent They still get bailed out, get a big salary
    and a bonus. The ELITES will not need money – most of them do not need it now.
    -The military will be controlled by the Apparatchiks.
    All their training has been to do what they are told.
    -Look at how the Universities have already been co-opted. Back in the 60’s professors went to Sit-ins with the students over Viet Nam. Now – Three Wars
    KILLING people who have done Nothing to the US –
    and Not a Peep from the Professors. (except maybe Chomsky)

  • Oliver April 14, 2011, 3:58 pm

    If the dollar really outright collapses, and the situation turns uncontrollable, farmers will be surprised to see how quickly every liberty they were used to can evaporate.
    In very hard times, farmers will be turned to state-slaves, working under the command of the new government. If there is no government anymore, roaming bands will take care of them.
    A dollar collapse may release one of the largest military organizations this planet ever saw into self-relying gangs.
    Whatever happens, the people with the largest guns will have the say.
    There will be no protection, but to quickly run to the “right” side. Like most people did in Germany or Russia, voila, Hitler or Stalin.
    It´s really very hard to calculate what a breakdown of a civilization means and how horribly at variance every day will be.
    But, again, one thing is for sure, the tougher it gets, the bigger chances are it will have to do with military in some way.
    There is a brilliant movie by Bernhard Wickie, which I don´t know whether it´s available in English, called “Das Spinnennetz” (Spiderweb) about the years after WWI. It gives you an excellent feeling of how extremely dangerous and unforeseeable the disintegration of a society really is. A nightmare. Anything can happen.

    • Steve April 14, 2011, 5:12 pm

      The federal government, and state governments, with the military have already worked the senarios.

    • Rick Ackerman April 14, 2011, 10:25 pm

      “Spider’s Web” is available at Netflix. It was Germany’s Oscar entry for best foreign language film in 1989. The film is based on the 1923 novel by Joseph Roth.

  • Craig April 14, 2011, 3:00 pm

    Financial assets can be denominated in other fiat, such as the Swiss Franc, (maybe Bancor / SDRs). In Weimar Germany, gold yes was king, but Pound Sterling, Yankee dollars, were gladly accepted to purchase assets on the cheap, another words currencies perceived to be stable outside Amerika’s FRN rag. Sorry to insult rags…

  • Zeke April 14, 2011, 2:54 pm

    What the elites want is a constant income from interest at a rate above the inflation rate. To get a constant rate of interest the supply of debt must increase and therefore the amount of money. To insure that the debt increases it must be loaded onto the debtors but since an individual debtor can only absorb so much debt there has to be an increasing supply of debtors. To ensure that the inflation rate doesn’t rise above the interest rate the wages and incomes of the debtors have to be constrained so that they do not rise faster than the inflation rate. To satisfy these constraints the wages and incomes of the debtors have to remain essentially flat and the supply of debtors has to increase and thus the population has to grow.

    I believe that hyperinflation would destroy this equilibrium and therefore is not in the interest of the elites. But I believe that the self-interest of the elites can also blind them to the consequences of their actions and lead to the problems that we witnessed in the past few asset bubbles. The elites will work hard to prevent hyperinflation but their own greed (or the greed of their minions) may create the very thing they don’t want.

  • JohnJay April 14, 2011, 2:42 pm

    It’s nice to see that no one trusts the Federal Government will be able to fix the mess they have created.
    No one expects the perps to ever be brought to justice either for that matter.
    As the government ignores their crimes, everyday more violations of the law slip past the statute of limitations.
    If we ever get honest people into office, all that will be left is income tax evasion, there is no statute of limitations for false returns when fraud is involved I believe.
    That will be the last dream left to us.

    • Steve April 14, 2011, 5:04 pm

      JJ, the current ‘statute of limitations’ is legislative skullduggery. Under the Immutable Law there is no statute of limitations for misrepresentation/fraud/ breach, as I remember. Nor is there a statute of limitation for High Treason, and it is treasonous designs in legislative abuse that the masses refuse to face on many fronts. The people themselves are deemed “. . .in rebellion. . .” Amos H. Short v. Ertimanager, and so are not so anxious to see the Law return. The issue is more about the People, see; THE GREATEST QUOTE EVER, from yesterday.

      What is wrong with a People who refuse to remove themselves from fraud? I think someone else said it well already today. The psychology of the masses is exploited – and the Quote give the psychology.

      More clearly on the first statement “The People by their quiet assent allow the lawlessness to continue”. Agreement to not prosecute Outlawry is what exists – the problem is that nearly everyone is Outlaw in misrepresentation – just look at the representatives and Bammer as the reflection in the mirror.

  • Cam Fitzgerald April 14, 2011, 1:28 pm

    “The people needed a place to live that offered protection from the weather, water and food. Everything else was and is a luxury. The people who had the talents of building shelters and producing food prospered and those that came with family money either died or went home broke”~~Wyoming Rancher
    —————————————————————-
    If anything ever suggested that a key ingredient in surviving a long financial drought was good physical health then this is it. Even farmers need to think to be prepared better for a theoretically tough future.

    Going back 150 years on the Canadian prairies for example their were ample sources of wild meat that were readily available. Buffalo still roamed the land and were free for the taking. Passenger Pigeons flew across the skies by the millions. The environment was much richer and more diverse.

    Not anymore. Now we only have plenty of gophers.

    What was scarce then was building materials. Bricks for example were wholly out of the question unless you lived in a town on the rail line. Lumber was hard if not impossible to come by too. There were very few trees as the Buffalo were notorious at chewing down anything before it had a chance to grow up. They created their own prairie environment in effect that was open and dominated by grasslands.

    The early settlers resorted to building crude adobe homes with mud and straw in many cases and were forced to import lumber over long distances for roof struts. These small, squat nearly windowless shelters could be heated by burning animal dung in a pinch (or not heated at all in some cases except at meal times).

    Fencing off yards was no small task either. Being close to water was absolutely crucial. Forget pumps and pipes. You needed an accessible well that would not freeze up in winter or a large open body of flowing water that could supply your needs. These things are a very big deal when temperatures fall below minus fourty on the land. Few people will understand just how irrelevant indoor plumbing is when you cannot keep a house warm year round.

    So where are we today? Well many farmers today live very similar lives to their city dwelling friends. They are entirely reliant on electrical heat or on natural gas, on water pumped in from great distances, sometimes even hundreds of kilometers away. Few have cisterns or windmills to pump water. And they are dependant on the services of towns to keep roads clear in winter. As a result, much less attention has been paid to where modern farm houses are physically located.

    With cheap, easy energy you can build a damn house anyplace you please with no thoughts for serious design that actually had survival in mind.

    As a result, they are in many cases vulnerable in the same way that city folk are. Too many gave up on their wood stoves too out of some sort of pride even though wood is now plentiful in the absence of Bison. Their houses are built too big nowadays and windows are too large. The lessons of the past where living in small, efficient, easily heated shelters has been lost in just the past 50 years.

    I am not suggesting anyone go back to living in small adobe huts but any farmer choosing to live in a five bedroom, 3500 square foot box with 10 foot ceilings on the prairies is just asking for trouble the day the lights go out.

    As well, very few farms today have accessible wells built inside of their homes as was done in the past. For those who do have wells they are often dependant on water coming from one or two hundred feet underground. In many cases as the old, shallow water table has either dried up from overuse or is contaminated by chemicals leeched from discarded machinery, old fuel barrels and pesticides.

    I lived very rough for a while on a farm during one winter and let me tell you what a major chore it was just to get pails of water from the lake each day. More than an hour of time was consumed just to supply the few animals and chickens and keep drinking water on the table. Forget showers! That is where the Sauna came in handy.

    So I think the Wyoming farmer has some good points as long as he is one of those who has thought through the variables one needs to take into account when there is no electricity, no gas perhaps, no running water and no heat in a big country home except what you can acquire through your own efforts.

    That means swinging an axe and that is why staying healthy and fit is absolutely essential for toughing out a nasty long lasting financial crisis where credit has all but evaporated and what we take for granted no longer exists.

    • Bed Rock April 14, 2011, 8:55 pm

      Cam,
      Good points. I am a Texas rancher and not Wy. I live in a small town a few miles from the ranch. There is a rock home on the ranch that was built in 1893. We have kept the house up but in its origional shape. 8 ft ceilings and windows on all sides of the 1800 sq ft house. Added a generator (in fact two) that run on natural gas, two window air conditioners, nat gas stove and heaters, put in a security system with 8 cameras and gasoline & deisel tanks. Have a lot of excellent neighbors who produce food that we trade around with each other. I don’t trade cattle for these but trade their meat to someone that needs it for their family. Work all day doing everything I can on foot. Wear a pistol for snakes, wild dogs and just in case. It is the kind of place that after Home Depot delivered an air conditioner this morning to the ranch in a moving van and then drove back on to the hgy. A highway patrol saw them leaving and called me on my cell phone just to be sure someone wasn’t making off with something that wasn’t theirs. Great people to live with !!

  • Chris T. April 14, 2011, 9:45 am

    roger erickson:
    “…disastrous gold std”

    What pray tell was disastrous about it?
    When you write gold-standard, lets leave aside its bastardization, since about 1910, or even a bit earlier.

    But from about 1800 to 1890, leaving aside the disastrous jettisoning of the gold standard by Lincoln (illegal as well), we had stable prices, with a dollar, buying about as much in 1800 as in 1890.
    This together with the stable interest rates the gold standard produced (as per Dr. Fekete’s point about the real value of the gold standard), led to the greatest increase in overall wealth this country, and any other, has ever seen, especially after the return to the gold standard post Secessionary War.

    The late Dr. Katz was fond of pointing this relationship out, and right he was.
    If you call THAT gold standard disastrous, then for whom?
    Not the average person.
    “The cross of gold” was only in the head of a tool of just that elite mentioned by Charles Smith, he may really have believed he was doing it for the little guy, but far from it.
    To cite Dr. Katz again: a depression is when the elite suffers, but the masses benefit due to the deflationary environment, as an example the pre-Roosevelt, post 1929 period.
    These groups turn everything around, and if you fall for that, then you fell into their trap.
    To reiterate, that is the true agenda of progressivism, policies benefitting the wealty elite, while maskerading as pro-little-guy.

    • Carol April 14, 2011, 2:55 pm

      I love how “gold bugs” think that the monetary system and the economy will be “all right” if we just go back to using PM as the basis of the money.

      Who ownes the PMs? The large central banks! Who controlled the economy under a PM money system? The owners of gold.

      Any “gold bug” who thinks going to a gold and silver backed currency is the solution to our problems really really really (is that emphasis enough to move you?) needs to watch “The Secret of Oz”. This movie will show you why we do not need a gold monetary system and will show you what a excellent monetary system looks like.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swkq2E8mswI&feature=relmfu

    • roger erickson April 14, 2011, 4:04 pm

      thank you Carol;
      the basic story of PM-based metals is oligarchy by large PM gold hoarders; it was worse than the megabanks of today

      the disaster was exposed when contexts demanded national policy with greater flexibility & kinetics

      to act with agility, a currency supply has to be pulled, there’s often no time to go out & dig up more of a bulk reference

      bottom line is that all currencies, throughout history, are always backed, in the end, only by public initiative;
      any invader can come in and take anyone’s PMs; the hardest thing to take is public initiative

    • FranSix April 14, 2011, 6:33 pm

      The silver story. Interesting and sad, though true.

      In order to have a stamped face value on a silver coin and have it function as a currency you need a fixed gold price.

      One thing totally missed by the silver crazies is that the attempt to demonetize gold has now failed. But the attempt to demonetize silver has been a huge success.

      Banks are accumulating gold by taking delivery through ETFs. Simply because, should the freely available currency be cut in half, then the only recourse at this point would be owning bullion.

      But there won’t be enough bullion to go around. So the other option would be to take large stakes in gold miners.

      Strange.

    • Robert April 14, 2011, 10:08 pm

      “I love how “gold bugs” think that the monetary system and the economy will be “all right” if we just go back to using PM as the basis of the money.

      Who ownes the PMs? The large central banks! Who controlled the economy under a PM money system? The owners of gold.”

      Ok Carol- you get a great big “SO WHAT” from me on that point.

      The point you and Roger fail to miss is that the Gold Std works, regardless of who possesses the gold…

      The reason? Because when there is a fixed denomination to your medium of exchange, then there becomes NO legitimate way to game the system. Even if you own ALL the gold, at some point there will be something you will want (or need) more than your hoard of yellow metal, and on that day, to achieve what you want or need, you will need to pay the bearer’s price.

      What possible refutation can there be to the argument that single, fixed currency denomination is the only fair way to conduct a valid monetary system…?

      Who the hell cares if the “units” are digital, printed paper, etc…. the point is that NO ONE should be allowed to debase denomination as a matter of “policy”.

      Perhaps debasing as a function of population growth dynamics is valid, but I need to grind my gears as to the possible economic utility such action would serve…

    • Carol April 14, 2011, 10:20 pm

      Robert, “Ok Carol- you get a great big “SO WHAT” from me on that point.”

      No, it is not WHAT money is made of that matters it is WHO issues it. When a private consortium of bansters who own the world issue the currency or control its issue (or in the PM case own the metal upon which the currency is issued) they are in control. Remember what Rockafeller said (I beleive it was)

      I care not who makes the laws as long as I issue the currency.

      He who has the gold makes the rules (you ever hear that one?)

    • Steve April 15, 2011, 6:28 pm

      He who has lead beats gold.

  • JR April 14, 2011, 8:46 am

    Don’t the elites want the dollar to be
    worthless? Don’t they need that to get
    us to jump to the new world currency?
    IMF SDRs

    • PhotoRadarScam April 14, 2011, 9:10 am

      One thing that is often discounted is the arrogance and hubris of the elites. They truly think ‘it’s different this time’ and that they can keep the currency from imploding even though no government has ever succeeded in this feat. Not all elites think this way – those are the ones who own solid assets. And let me reiterate – gold is not the ONLY instrument of protection from hyper-inflation.

    • Carol April 14, 2011, 2:49 pm

      JR that is exactly what they want and what they will get? See a debt-based monetary system is mathematically destined to blow up it can’t help itself. There is no way to stop it. So yes they know it will blow up they are trying now to “help it along”. Don’t tell me with 3 wars going and more and more on the way that “the elite” are not in control of the situation. They are intentionally trying to drive oil to 200-300 per barrel using middle east wars and unrest. What will 200-300 oil do to our SUV economy?

  • C.C. April 14, 2011, 8:25 am

    First off, Charles Hugh Smith is a gentleman.

    Secondly, to cut through some of the confusion regarding whether we shall have high inflation or not:

    Look no further than your fellow citizenry/society at large, to see the answer. Then look at the types of people they elect, cycle after cycle to put the final punctuation on the outcome.

    We are soft. Weak. Undisciplined. Envious. Wanting. Dependent. The political ‘Elite’ are very keen to this and play their campaigns to it – so much so that the rational mind becomes nauseated at the very thought of what the next Democrat or Republican sloganeering campaign will be. That is how Stupid and gullible they think we are. And they would be right to think that way based on the past ~35 years of successfully maintaining a 2-party stranglehold of politics-as-usual upon the nation.

    If the political wind is powerful enough to sway politicians to do what must be done – knowing that the pain would be equal to or greater than the depths of the Great Depression – with 7X the population and -7X the common social/American ideals of that period – and the consequences that lie therein, then they may acquiesce to the wishes of an American public that desires for the imbalances to be corrected, by way of natural market forces and not government intervention.

    If there is not such overwhelming desire by the public for market forces to cleanse the excesses from the system, then you already know – by the actions of the past (3) years, what the outcome will be.

    • Rick Ackerman April 14, 2011, 8:49 pm

      It’s not hard to imagine a vengeful public settling the score via the ballot box, especially if bankers continue to reap record bonuses year after year. But there is a third way that seems plausible because it will satisfy…no one: homeowners become the tenants of their mortgage holders. That is what I have long expected to happen, but if it comes to pass it could set in motion a political battle that the tenants would win but which would drag on for many years. The economy would be utterly drained.

    • Rich April 15, 2011, 4:54 pm

      There are FEMA camps ready for the troublemakers…
      http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/fema.htm

    • Steve April 15, 2011, 6:54 pm

      Rick, not sure, but; Fee Simple Absolute is on the deed to nearly everyone’s home. 1832 Allodial Deed, for all Americans.

      Fee, fife, feod, feud, feudal tenant, tenant in fee, Blacks Law Dictionary Fourth Revised Edition 1968.

      Ya pay off the bankster, but; the Fee is still owed to the Lord of Lands under the Law of Escheats.

    • Steve April 15, 2011, 6:54 pm

      Rich, don’t need to worry – I’m gone in the first wave.

  • Terry S April 14, 2011, 7:41 am

    “That is well said,” replied Candide, “but we must cultivate our garden”
    Voltaire (French Philosopher and Writer.)

  • Hue of Man April 14, 2011, 5:41 am
  • Bed Rock April 14, 2011, 5:17 am

    Rick, Bed Rock is a 4th generation “Texas” rancher with 5th and 6th generations ready to take over when their time comes. I read your site daily and subscribed once. But i am not a trader so just read your daily public posts now. Thank you for inspiring all of us to think ! and re-think and re-think !!

    • Rick Ackerman April 14, 2011, 8:41 pm

      Ahh, Texas! I hope you took no insult from my having inferred you were from Wyoming. My apologies, in any case — and thanks for contributing so much to the discussion.

  • SD1 April 14, 2011, 4:43 am

    To my knowledge, no bank has ever made provisions in their lending criteria. So to anyone subscribing to the hyperinflation theory, all I can say is there is nothing I, and millions of other North Americans, would love more than to take $250,000 of worthless, hyperinflated money that we worked a few days to make, to pay off a mortgage that would otherwise have taken twenty-five to thirty years to repay.

    • Rick Ackerman April 14, 2011, 8:38 pm

      That’s the bottom line, as far as I’m concerned.

  • Chris T. April 14, 2011, 3:49 am

    Charles Smith makes a very good observation.
    But, if the analysis is right, does that mean we are fated to victims of these groups always?
    Certainly they have very little to gain by wiping out their assets, and won’t embark on policies that do that.
    And they surely are not all in gold.
    So, if H-I comes, only despite them, not because of them.
    You mention, that can only happen through policy, thus under their control, and thus not likely. Sounds right somehow.
    So, either that is wrong or were fated to be their subjects.
    UNLESS: They embark on policies, that turn out to be run-away and outside fo their control. If such a thing could happen, somehow, then H-I could be possible despite them.
    While not likely perhaps, and in many ways undesirable for most, it would offer a glimmer of hope.

    I am thinking of a Tchernobyl-like accident:
    No one there intended to blow up the reactor, but they did things that provoked it, until it was to late to stop.
    Read the wiki entry, it is interesting on its own to show human folly at work.
    Not saying that H-I is likely, just speculating on a pathway if policy and its control are necessary elements in H-I.

    As to the protein comment:
    Right on, see my late comment to yesterday’s post about gold/food.

    Your last sentence is the :
    FInd a balance, have some of each, focusing on necessities first, the PM left over (hopefully) is for after the crisis is over. That is its proper role.

    Only sad thing is: if this ever goes that far, then we will be in a Malthusian moment:
    Our current output levels can not exist without the advantages provided by division of labor. and human produced energetic inputs (oil, etc ) as found today.
    How many people living between Philadelphia and Boston can implement these very valid suggestions?
    Lack of knowledge, lack of land, lack of other inputs, etc.
    The pre 1920s food-stuff production to feed 311 million?

  • jeff kahn April 14, 2011, 3:01 am

    The dollar has lost 95 percent of its purchasing power since the advent of the Fed. I think that shows exactly what the elites want. I can tell the future: look what’s in your hand. (I can’t stop for nothing, I’m playing in the band. Sorry.) The idea that non-stop inflation creation can not get away from the elites and morph into something more dangerous seems illogical. It has happened many times in the past. Remember Louis XV and John Law. Those were true elites. That said, it’s equally plausible that crushing debt deflation will overwhelm the printing presses. It all comes down to confidence. If the citizens retain a semblance of confidence in the system we’ll have deflation. If not, money will become worthless, then hyper inflation. I think FOFOA explained that quite well.

    • PhotoRadarScam April 14, 2011, 9:03 am

      “It has happened many times in the past.”

      Wrong, it has happened EVERY TIME in the past, if I’m not mistaken.

      “It all comes down to confidence.”

      And where would that confidence come from?

    • cosmo April 14, 2011, 6:04 pm

      Had to go play that song…not sorry. Thanks!

    • Stephen April 14, 2011, 9:27 pm

      I am so tired of hearing the argument the “Dollar has lost 95% of it’s purchasing power”, based on what? How has it lost purchasing power? Markets adjust. This is not 1920, or even 1970, it is 2011. In the end it is not even about the money, it is about markets.

      Our common problem is our markets are full of monopolies and governments who do little else but service their needs. Begin to break that up and you will have so many products and services to buy it would make your head spin.

      We are drowning in supply. We are drowning in solutions. Both toxic conditions if your goal is control and power over people and resources.

    • Carol April 14, 2011, 10:16 pm

      Stephen ” I am so tired of hearing the argument the “Dollar has lost 95% of it’s purchasing power”, based on what? How has it lost purchasing power? ”

      You are kidding right? It has lost its purchasing power based on anything one wants to purchase. My father bought a 4 bedroom house on an acre outside DC in early 60s for 22k. That same house today has a market value of 10 times that at least. Did the house become more expensive? NO the dollar became more worthless.

      As to your question the answer is EVERYTHING!

    • Rich April 15, 2011, 4:32 pm

      Both the Mississippi and South Pacific Companies bought sovereign debt liens in England and France to repossess the properties…

    • Steve April 15, 2011, 6:48 pm

      How about actual legislative “Dollar” instead of all this federal reserve note – b.s. ?

  • PhotoRadarScam April 14, 2011, 2:47 am

    I agree with DG that the question “why would the elites want this” is a fallacious presupposition. And gold isn’t the ONLY way to beat inflation. Stocks still do relatively well (look at Zimbabwe’s stock market), and there are other asset types and classes that will hold up.

    To see why inflation is the avenue of choice, we need only look at what’s happened in the US and what’s been happening in Europe. Austerity measures and cutbacks are ALWAYS met with protests, and in Europe riots and violence. The unions have become uber-powerful. They will get violent in the US if pushed much further. The elites are few, the unions are many. The path of inflation and printing is the only politically palatable option. So far, the tea party (and libertarians) seem to be the only groups willing to go down the other path. I hope they are successful but I have my doubts. You need votes to get elected and re-elected, and politicians seem to prefer to pander to their bases that elected them rather than do they know is right. In the end, the fed does what congress and the pres tells them to do, and the politicians do what their electorate demands (especially when they start demonstrating and rioting).

    • Cam Fitzgerald April 14, 2011, 5:47 am

      No

    • Carol April 14, 2011, 2:31 pm

      “In the end, the fed does what congress and the pres tells them to do, and the politicians do what their electorate demands (especially when they start demonstrating and rioting).”

      Photo again I think you have that backwards. The congress does what the fed (and their other handlers) tells them to do as does the pres. It has been many many years since the people were heard anywhere. Remember the health care reform act? Majority against it but it passed anyhow. That is just one of many examples.

      Has the demonstrations and rioting in Wisconsin changed the Govenors mind? No. Has it changed the politics anywhere in Europe? No. The people are powerless against these crooks!

    • PhotoRadarScam April 14, 2011, 7:24 pm

      Those are great examples. For Obamacare, that was a rare situation where the politicians did NOT listen to the people in order to pursue an ideological agenda. The democrats paid for it in the next election. Such situtations are rare and not likely to happen. Unless the tea party takes more control in the next election I don’t see this congress mustering the votes to force through any serious entitlement reform. If you do, you have more faith than I.

      In WI it didn’t matter because the politicians in power had the support of the electorate and were dedicated to the cause. It was only the unions that really had any beef, and the protests were pretty mild. Just wait until they amp it up a bit! Re-election didn’t seem to be a big concern in WI. If our senators and congressman can be like the leadership in WI then we might have a chance, but I am just not that optimistic.

    • Rick Ackerman April 14, 2011, 8:22 pm

      Inflation is the “avenue of choice” only for the indentured masses, not the lenders and rentiers. Who do you think will prevail? I continue to believe that mortgage debtors will not simply skip-and-go-naked.

    • Rich April 15, 2011, 4:29 pm

      Who owns the unions?
      How else did Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Obama come to power?

  • DG April 14, 2011, 2:29 am

    I think the idea that the “elite” control all outcomes is flawed and based without any historical support. Short term only. Napoleon failed, Hitler failed, they all fail. They planned greatness and dominance. They end with epic failure. So the question “why would the elites want this” is full of fallacious presupposition.
    Inflation, by design, is the greatest of all taxation on those without assets. This is one of the twisted ironies of the committed social equality vote. The rich and elites float it out as the great equalizer, but it is not. They get the well meaning humanitarian to buy into the argument and demonize those that oppose it. Yet, the demon is the only party likely paving a road NOT to Hell. Unless this endeavor is funded with equity, not debt, the inflation tax far exceeds the social benefit. But it is always debt because equity is too painful and shines light on a myriad of wasted projects….so you get the inflation tax. And the very folks that get punished by this unwritten tax vote for it every time.
    I agree that we need to pursue a society that is more balanced than the one we have today. It simply is common sense. Our imbalances today are mostly a product of the collusion between corporations and government. Do you think the tax code is 72,000 pages to benefit poor people? It is amazing how much wealth can be bought (or destroyed) for a meager campaign contribution (or payola after office). Billy Tauzin rammed medicare part D through, received a $2 million a year lobby job one month later and now that legislation has created a liability worth over $19 trillion !!! In just 7 short years…pretty bad taxpayer ROI.

    I agree with the rancher. The FIRE economy is going to go back to a much more basic economy based on real value, not 5 steps removed derived value. But we aren’t going to be trading 400 chickens for a head of beef. There will be new money. Folks will be so PO’d with the experience of this monetary generation that the next one will not be easily sold as “all good” with just new ink and paper. The ills of fiat money will be well known by the majority – demanding answers as to how “they woke up homeless in the land their fathers conquered.” We will figure out what TJ meant by “first through inflation, then deflation”. Even TJ got squished by currency with his land and inherited debt in pounds getting exploded by his falling American currency. (Imagine owing $100 and it then became $400, simply due to currency collapse.)
    Check out Thomas Jefferson’s quote. Chew on it for awhile. Think about what we in the US have just gone through, particularly in housing, and the words ring incredibly true. Inflation? Deflation? Yup
    http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/37700.html

    • Chris T. April 14, 2011, 3:56 am

      The mechanism you describe is progressivism.

      But the elites you cite as disproof are not the elites mentioned above, they are different in kind.
      Napoleon was financed by them, and there are claims so was Hitler. Hitler himself believed he was fighting this moneyed elite, he railed against them always (that is not a comment on his actions, to be sure I am not misunderstood). But neither was of them.

    • DG April 14, 2011, 4:46 am

      Chris:
      I was only using Napoleon and Hitler as random examples of ambition that fell under its own weight. Politics disregarded. My point was simply that those that think an individual or group (like elites) can achieve total domination is a stretch.
      I had a couple of thoughts going there.

    • Cam Fitzgerald April 14, 2011, 5:37 am

      Oh Lord DG,

      Hitler, Mussolini and Napoleon et al were not elites.

      Those were mere dictators with idiotic ideas parlayed onto the lazy and stressed minds of the masses who in turn attempted to control the elites and co-op wealth that never belonged to them.

      The cover story was that they were correcting for past inequities of course but that really never washed well in retrospect and in the light of historical analysis.

      They could not succeed long-term because their miserable ideas were dead wrong and because they were bent on theft and easy gain at the expense of everyone else.

      All of those guys failed to understand the way financial systems are interconnected and why trust is essential to a properly functioning system, why groups working together always prosper above individuals with a determination to win by force, by arms and by loyalty driven through fear of reprisals.

      Those are not the ingredients necessary for the proper development of industriousness, discovering opportunity, working towards creativity or developing a devotion to higher learning and excellence.

      What those Autocrats offered instead was brutality and a regime bent on revenge against systems they were not formally a part of and as a consequence in the end they all became failed leaders (leaders is way too strong a word actually) as the minions rejected the false promises.

      When you go a little deeper you will see that the establishment itself was what came under threat of Autocratic rule and that natural cooperation, which is usually required to make society work properly, was absent with all three of the above noted lunatics.

      Sorry DG. The Elites are usually a quieter bunch and are generally happy enough to be working in the background. They don’t appreciate dictators.

    • DG April 14, 2011, 5:51 am

      One more time. I was not implying they were elites. Only ambitious folks who wanted domination.

      Label them anything. My point is that the argument that any group that thinks they can control all of humanity via total monetary manipulation is up against history which states otherwise. Hence, the argument that hyperinflation won’t happen because a group won’t want it is not much of an argument, in my opinion. All currencies have failed throughout all time.
      It is not as if stating that the dollar is sliding to zero value is hyperbole.

      “They could not succeed long-term because their miserable ideas were dead wrong and because they were bent on theft and easy gain at the expense of everyone else”
      wow. that sounds like the last 3 years and the Wall St-govt love-in.

      Please don’t call me Lord. That title is way above my paygrade!

      &&&&&&

      The Elites needn’t be conspiratorially omnipotent to block hyperinflation, which would effectively render their paper assets — most crucially mortgage contracts — worthless. As someone has noted above, our 72,000-page tax code is ample evidence that these guys do indeed write the rules. RA

    • roger erickson April 14, 2011, 7:05 am

      ” The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.”
      Tom Jefferson

      Which is exactly what we finally got, in 1933, then rescinded briefly with Breton Woods, and then recovered when we went back to a fully fiat currency under Nixon in 1973.
      Treasury bonds & nominal “debt” are just accounting myths on a fully fiat, sovereign currency regime – & only habits left over from the brief & disastrous gold std. If someone kept population accounting books we’d also have a “population debt” as new people are created every year.

      “Inflation” & “deflation” are, to be accurate, measures of the amount of old currency it takes to buy old products valued per old contexts. Both terms are always offset by the re-valuations that occur when we have:
      1) more people
      2) more potential return-on-coordination
      3) more potential output
      4) new inventions dis-intermediating the value of old ones

      There are always infinite options for surviving, or else humans wouldn’t be here, in our present form. Hence, as Bed Rock says, the wisest course is to see what’s coming and prepare for it, regardless of what it might be.

    • Cam Fitzgerald April 14, 2011, 12:10 pm

      Sorry DG, I wasn’t trying to be repetitive. Actually, if I had seen the Chris T remark I would not have added anything more. Unfortunately I never got past your first paragraph or two and was then well into writing my own post in response!

      If I call you Lord again…..then you deserve a raise man.

    • fallingman April 15, 2011, 5:50 am

      Napoleon got his precisely because he would NOT play ball with the Rothschilds. Nappy hated the bankers. And one of the things that made him so powerful was his embrace of gold following the disastrous French experiment with John Law’s paper money scheme.

    • Rich April 15, 2011, 4:26 pm

      Mortgages are the mechanism to the end of property foreclosure acquisition; inflation and deflation the trigger.
      Billboard CNN Time Warner mogul Ted Turner only recently surpassed by John Malone as largest American landowner; still has largest Bison herd in the world for Ted’s Montana Grill.
      Stock of a different sort.
      May work better for some…