It Doesn’t Have to Be ‘Inflation vs. Deflation’

[Many readers have pointed out that our long-running discussion of deflation has tended to overlook the impact of price increases, or at least price stability, on essential goods and services. In the essay below, Robert Moore, a frequent contributor to the Rick’s Picks forum, explains how both type of “flations” can co-exist. That he has done so without using the words “inflation” or “deflation” is not merely clever, but persuasive. Read on to sharpen your understanding of how supply and demand interact in an economy where some debtors are being liquidated while others continue to pay their bills and debts. We will mention up-front that although Robert is no “deflationist,” the economic outcome he predicts is exactly what we have long predicted – i.e., a drawn-out drop in the standard of living until all debts have been paid – either by creditors, or debtors. RA]

Ok, I’m going to try to make it through this entire essay only uttering the words “inflation” and “deflation” in just this one sentence. Why, you ask? Because these terms are just too ambiguous for a productive economic discussion. Each word has two unique, and distinct (some might say polar opposite) definitions when used in the context of money supply versus the context of general price levels. This degree of ambiguity makes both terms completely worthless in an analysis of cause and effect. There must, by necessity, be a dedicated term to describe the cause, and another term to describe the effect; otherwise you find yourself drawn into an analogous discussion where explosions are causing explosions, and the end effect is simultaneously identified as the root cause — a rational impossibility.

Despite a global deleveraging of credit and the worst recession in generations, the prices we pay for essentials have remained firm

So, before we go much further, let’s settle in on some fundamental ideologies that I hope we can all agree on:

1) As demand for an item increases in a limited supply scenario, the price for that item (the amount of alternative wealth it would take to procure that item in trade) would rise.

2) As supply for an item increases in a limited demand environment, the price for that item (again, in terms of transferable wealth) would decline.

3) Market supply of durable goods is formed from two sources: a) allocation of capital (time labor, raw material) to yield new production and inventory; and b) re-introduction of existing stock (via resale, recycling, or dishoarding).

4) Market Supply in non-durable goods is formed only by new production, and results only from the capital (time, raw material) required to yield this production.

Many people claim that money follows the same basic supply premise described in number 3 above. I contend that money is different. Money fails to consistently abide by these basic supply-demand arguments (may Ludwig Von Mises have mercy on my soul for making that statement). Debt makes money act differently. In a sound economy, people aspire to accumulate wealth, and to enjoy it. Demand for money is really only a demand for the opportunity to do more work in exchange for greater wealth and a higher standard of living. Only in an unhealthy economy is overall demand for money driven by debt levels, and by the need to stay ahead of rising prices. The more debt that gets introduced into the system, the more money that must, by necessity, circulate through the system in order to maintain this debt.

As Debt Increases…

In a closed system where the money supply is constant, as total debt increases over time, less and less money is left to purchase essential goods and services after whatever increasing amount is necessarily allocated toward servicing the increasing debt. The net effect of this is: a) declining prices in all consumer categories, as more and more of the money has to move toward servicing the debt, leaving less money available to purchase goods and services (both essential and non-essential). The net effect becomes a generally decreasing standard of living for all debtors; and/or b) decreased economic productivity as debtors feel the increasing desperation that they may never conquer their increasing debt, until debt defaults eventually begin releasing money from the service of debt, allowing it to once again purchase essential goods and services.

I believe this is what we saw in the early 1930’s, as the debt level peaked at the end of the Roaring 20s and tipped over into the long deleveraging. In a system where the money supply can be increased at will, increasing debt can be maintained right alongside rising prices, as the remainder money after debt servicing never feels the constraint of the increasing debt service obligations. I believe that is what we witnessed during the later Greenspan/early Bernanke years — increasing debt, offset by increasing money supplies, leading to economic distortion as rising prices provided no warning that there was anything to be worried about with total debt levels.  It was like the Roaring 20s on steroids.

The Friedman Argument

So, the argument that rising prices can only result from too much money in the system (the Friedman argument) only operates unequivocally if the system is devoid of (or maintains very little) total debt. So long as credit is easy to come by, prices can rise without there being sufficient money to offset this debt. The question we face today is: Is this really the economic equivalent of the perpetual motion machine? Can continued debt issuance stimulate continued demand for real goods and services in perpetuity?

Alternatively, as the system becomes too heavily burdened with debt, the willful reduction of total money (or credit) available to consumers has two affects:

1) reduction in demand for “non-essentials” as the available money must be used first to service existing debt and to purchase required essentials.

a. As demand for non-essentials declines, so too must prices for these items

b. prices on essentials will fluctuate based on the available remainder money after debt service, but will ultimately remain relative to demand for these essentials (which increases organically with population over time); and/or:

2) increasing debt defaults so that the money that would be used to service or pay down debt can be freed up to purchase essential goods and services.

a. As available money is de-allocated from debt service and allocated toward purchasing essential goods and services, prices in those items must surely rise.

Today’s Conditions

Both of these appear to be what is occurring to varying degrees today. People fortunate enough to have a job and a positive cash flow are prone to fall into category 1, while more desperate people (unemployed, more debt, lower cash flow) probably fall into category 2. Either way, so long as the unemployment and/or debt default rates keep rising, the number of people in both categories will also continue to rise, along with rising prices in consumer essentials; while demand and prices on consumer financed non-essentials can only continue to decline (as there is less and less money to service any new debt, particularly debt of a frivolous nature).

Also interestingly, what we are seeing today is a scenario where decreasing the consumer debt in the system is not necessarily resulting in reduced total debt, as governments have been more than willing to step up to the borrowing window on our behalf.  So the slowly declining consumer debt is allowing the increasing remainder money to stimulate rising price levels in essential goods and services (just as we would expect). This could explain the conundrum of rising prices of consumer essentials during what is clearly a debt clearing/deleveraging period, and it might also serve to explain the viewpoints of the few policymaker types who think that raising taxes would be an effective means of fighting rising prices in consumer essentials (damn the standard of living man, this is economic war!)

‘Essentials’ Will Prevail

If total money supply in the system (and therefore total debt in the system, since all fiat currency is simply denominated debt) keeps increasing as the consumer portion of that debt keeps decreasing, then the resultant price increases in essentials could become much more pronounced, until eventually the priorities themselves ultimately trade places, and the available money first finds its way into the procurement of essential goods and services, while whatever remainder money then gets allocated to the service of existing debt.

This is the only inevitability I can see for us, as either path highlighted above (paying down our debt or defaulting outright) will ultimately lead us to the same place, and that place is a lower standard of living for a very broad segment of the productive population. The only alternative is to eliminate debt-based money and replace it with money of inherent, intrinsic value — i.e., money that once again accurately serves as the amount of alternative wealth it would take to procure a given item in trade — a proposition that is not likely to go anywhere since it eradicates the ability of non-productive elitists to manipulate the total money/debt supply in the system at will (a topic for another day, I suppose).

So, I’ve managed to remain true to my promise, and I did not use any “flations” at all in this essay. Let’s see how many of you can challenge my viewpoints, or support your own opposing viewpoints, using similarly unambiguous, cause and effect style language, rather than leaning on whatever flavor of “flation” you prefer to use as your verbal crutch of choice.

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  • Alex Bond September 1, 2010, 8:22 pm

    Robert – I agree that eliminating debt-based money is the right approach, but I don’t necessarily think the replacement money needs to be based on any particular hard asset (gold, oil, etc.) or basket of assets. Every hard asset is subject to fluctuations in supply that can negatively impact the stability of its value (Spain suffered inflation after silver discoveries in the New World, and the US experienced significant inflation in the 1850’s as a result of the California gold rush adding significant gold supplies into the economy).

    Instead, I would prefer to see a pure fiat currency issued (not borrowed) by the government. The government should declare a known monetary base (let’s say $10 trillion, just for the sake of discussion), and release half of that currency into the economy – fully replacing all debt-based currency. This would give the government a reserve upon which to call if the economy needed additional money for expansion. The government wouldn’t be able to spend any of the reserve funds on regular budget items, rather it would require a separate vote in Congress to release the funds. When the economy contracts (for any reason), the government could use tax surpluses to remove money from circulation and add it back into the reserve fund.

    With this scheme, the worst the government could do is double the monetary base. While this would cause inflation, it would not cause hyperinflation.

    As part of this scenario, gold should be freely tradeable without tax or restriction. The price of gold would then serve as a direct proxy for how well the government was managing its money supply.

    This setup, along with constraining the availability of credit by eliminating fractional reserve banking, would greatly reduce (if not eliminate) the possibility of debt saturation in the economy and provide better price stability of essential goods, since money could not simply be created on demand (through debt) to compete with actual money to purchase those items.

    In short, pure fiat currency issued by government without debt, limited bank lending and gold to serve as an indicator as to how well that currency is being handled.

  • Robert September 1, 2010, 5:02 pm

    Sorry-

    (combined with the inflow of new supply)

    should read:

    (combined with the inflow from dis-hoarding)

  • Alex Bond September 1, 2010, 9:11 am

    Robert – I don’t agree with your closing assertion that the “only alternative is to eliminate debt-based money and replace it with money of inherent, intrinsic value” (I’m assuming here that you mean gold).

    Our money was gold in the “roaring 20’s”, which you mentioned hit its debt saturation point and caused the depression in the 30’s. Having gold for money didn’t prevent the debt problem then, and it won’t prevent it now. Maybe if we used gold for money, eliminated fractional reserve banking -and- restricted the federal government’s ability to borrow money then we might have a chance.

    Additionally, the reason that money doesn’t follow basic supply and demand is not only debt – as you mentioned – but because money is not a closed system. As long as you have global trade, money can enter and leave an economy without rhyme or reason and without any relation to localized supply and demand. If anything, money tends to show up at the wrong time to reinforce negative trends (i.e. chasing “hot” markets propped up by debt) and to subvert positive trends (abandoning a weak but ready-to-recover market due to low returns).

    • Robert September 1, 2010, 4:58 pm

      Alex-

      I don’t assume Gold, even though I acknowledge Gold’s historical application and symbolism. As a matter of disclosure- I certainly do enjoy my personal collection of bullin coins, and I agree with Richard Russell when he says that human affinity for Gold is somehow wired into our DNA- But I can not formulate this into a blanket judgement that Gold should be the only money-choice for all humankind.

      Since many of you have keyed in on my “money of intrinsic value” proposition and jumped the assumption bridge to Gold, let me clarify my own position on this matter:

      If I had to “classify” myself, I am probably a barterist at heart. to me, there is no reason that money (in convenient paper or electronic forms) can not represent a fixed weight and measure of quantifiable wealth- and there are many globally acknowledged wealth standards we could use in a weighted basket: Oil, wheat, corn, etc.

      The trick is using a mix of durable (metals, etc) and non-durable capital goods in the basket so that core supply dynamics in one component of the basket does not shift the overall basket too wildly around a stable mean. Supply-demand fundamentals were always the root inadequacy of the Gold standard. In between new discoveries, liquid gold supply (currency) would always decline as the holders would hoard until the next big strike, at which time the new supply in the system (combined with the inflow of new supply) would cause prices to shoot upward in rapid moves- impoverishing those who had insufficient Gold holdings.

      I know that the human race is capable of formulating a stable weighted mean, against which we could asses all notional local currencies, so that they float not only against each other, but also against that common denominator, yes?

  • Alex Bond September 1, 2010, 5:48 am

    This can be summed up rather simply: things you need will go up; things you merely want will go down.

    This has been my analysis for a while…

    • Robert September 1, 2010, 6:50 am

      Yes, that does pretty much sum it up, doesn’t it?

  • BRUCE August 31, 2010, 8:34 pm

    I believe you have defined Stagflation Rick. Well done! Now, before we start discussing replacing the currency, I think we should focus on a sudden overnight devaluation of the existing currency as that seems like a more likely scenario considering the proclivities of this government and Bernanke’s promise of unorthodox solutions. How do you think such a move could be undertaken, and the effects on various groups of people?

  • Joe August 31, 2010, 6:30 pm

    The only alternative is to eliminate debt-based money and replace it with money of inherent, intrinsic value

    Creating non-debt-based fiat is another alternative. This is actually done today by the Mint. The coins are purchased by the Fed and directly put into circulation, without being loaned into circulation.

    While fiat currency may not be great, it is better than green paper dollars that are loaned into existence allowing those who control the Fed to get rich at our expense.

    • Howg September 1, 2010, 3:11 am

      It is a misnomer to say that fiat money (not debt) is based on nothing whatsoever. It is supposed to represent our collective productivity.
      We all know the effects of too little or too much of the stuff, but it IS based on something tangible and measurable.
      And whatever abuses that could occur under a system of fiat money, (i.e. making too much of it), could and does occur in a fiat debt-based system just as easily, with a much more sever outcome because it is all debt.
      Also, to argue that every fiat currency in history has eventually failed, while perhaps true, does not explain WHY it failed.
      The inference here is that it has always inflated / imploded itself out of existence.
      And in the case of our Austrian friends, well… they do not know that we borrow our fiat currency rather than making it, so there is no point debating the issue with these guys at all.
      However, I suggest that, a least in modern times, there have been more failures due to external intervention than any inherent weakness in such a system.
      That is, everyone / every country who has tried to introduce non-debt based money has been murdered / destroyed, (or simply bought out, as in the case of Canada -1974).
      e.g. If you believe that one of the reasons that Saddam got taken out is because he started selling oil in Euros, (as I do), then it is quite obvious that the invasion and total destruction of Iraq serves as a message to the rest of the world… if you mess with our currency – watch out!
      Same, same for every politician who has ever tried such in America… may they rest in peace.
      H

    • Robert September 1, 2010, 6:49 am

      Great point Joe…

      Why does the Fed need to denominate debt in order for the Treasury to issue Bonds?

      We call them Dollar Bills, but they are notes.

      The Treasury could begin issuing Fiat Dollar Bills tomorrow. Interesting what happened to JFK after he made that same public observation… purely coincidence I assume.

  • Roger Erickson August 31, 2010, 6:20 pm

    the whole point of my comments are to say that in any situation, there is always one, insanely great, way to proceed, that will leave all competitors in the dust;

    we should be looking for that new, coordinated, methodology and not even spending one moment considering going back to previously discredited Luddite methodologies

    • Steve August 31, 2010, 8:28 pm

      The comment flies in the face of current reality under Nash’s Theory which is the only “Game” today, and in which no one gives YOU the rule book. The issue of Individual Success, while speaking the We is not an acceptable means for the controlling powers. The simple fact of non long lasting individual successes are expressed, and then lost in complexities meant to confound because no one understands the Game, and what is really at play in the Game.

      (If Yee give up Liberty for a little security, Yee shall soon have neither) Control. How can one control another volunteering to give away their inheritance in assent to outlawry ?

      Current American Feudalism works because of economic theory allowing the few to control the many. One cannot tax an individual at 50% to do the progressive works unless all are taxed at that rate creating the punitive against any individual seeking to lay the Blond. The more people the more complex the Game, and the further the Game must be removed from the Immutable Law.

      Until Nash’s Theory is broken by a mass who adhere to a binding contract, there will be no real Individual Success.

  • mario cavolo August 31, 2010, 6:02 pm

    …just weighing in with another big thank you and bravo for such a meaningful and helpful article!

    Cheers, Mario

  • Roger Erickson August 31, 2010, 5:34 pm

       not bad;
    sounds like a partial intro to MMT in non-jargon, and with < than half the understanding
       (anyone who worries about offending von Mises can't really understand fiat currency operations)

    Robert Moore mentions only two perspectives: von Mises' closed-money system, and Friedman's open-money/closed-debt system;    (why, the reach of such perspective & imagination leaves one breathless! )

     one glaring oxymoron – he says we're caught in the alley of replacing private with public debt;  ??
       here's one, tiny re-equilibration FORCED by these two closed-minded approaches – "collective entity-debt-to-self by a currency issuer is, by definition, simply the act of absolving an individual of debt to the issuing-community" [i.e., a group writing off an individual's debt]

    [Robert seems to miss the different definitions of user-debt and issuer-deficits;  the latter is only internal bookkeeping;  the only budget that ever matters to a fiat currency issuer is a real-goods budget, not a bookkeeping budget]

    Instead of simply von-Mises vs Friedman, Rick, admit there there is ALWAYS an entire spectrum of options in ANY context, ask why we aren't exploring them all, and ask yourself if you've ever heard of at least one additional option out of that spectrum [i.e. outside his current box];    say, MMT?

    [I don't mean to sound like a fanboy of MMT

    – surely we can do far better than even that, but the rest of economics is in an absolute shambles!]

      Let’s get back to the basic tenets of systems.  No complex system can ever be usefully discussed in such simplistic terms.  No matter how you perturb a complex system, it will simply re-equilibrate in some unpredictable way.   One learns that in high school chemistry.  What on earth makes people think the same logic doesn’t apply to our political-market systems?

       Humans NEVER fail to amaze me.   Seems to me that most of our system-wide struggles involve making ourselves re-invent flexibility immediately after each success with a given infrastructure tool or practice.  We all, economists especially, behave like kids asked to execute multiple scavenger hunts at a birthday party.   They always want to apply the last strategy to the next stage.  Most are really miffed and stubborn to the point of violence & tears when they can’t.

    anyway, even Robert’s essay still won’t be discussed over Budweiser in the average bar;
       so we still need something far simpler; like Reagan’s imbecilic “reach a goal” rhetoric … but hopefully involving methodology for CONTINUOUSLY SELECTING worthwhile goals! Not just naive one-&-done thinking.

    Could we introduce the American public to a endless-stage scavenger hunt – with each stage different from the last?

    Instead of using boxes to ward off the need to continuously think, citizens may have to wrap their heads around accumulating a near-infinite tool-set of strategies, where they might have to combine application of any possible permutation of past strategies to any new context.

    There is no box to think outside of?    Never was?    

    Many Luddites may panic in fear of the unknown.  No need to worry about them?  They’re already guaranteed extinct?

    Robert’s conclusion “The only alternative is to eliminate debt-based money and replace it with money of inherent, intrinsic value ”  is simply calling for a return to a von Mises closed money system, e.g., a gold-std.
      No need to belabor the broken logic in that whole train of thought. If we’d shackled ourselves with a limited – er, “intrinsic value” currency system, we wouldn’t have had the operational flexibility & speed required to ramp up and win WWII, or any similarly demanding context. Get real.

    He is, however, waking up to the fact that our current thinking has painted us into a corner, but he’s leaving 99.999% of the unexplored system options on the table, still outside his self-imposed box.

    our independent wildcatters started shredding this box back in 1933, and there’s no going back;
      we have to face the responsibility of managing expanding coordination options;  retreating to foregone history is only a naive longing for national suicide

    • Roger Erickson August 31, 2010, 5:36 pm

      my reference to MMT was scrubbed from the last comment, trying again

      http://www.moslereconomics.com/wp-content/graphs/2010/08/MMT-Scott-Fullwiler.doc

    • Steve August 31, 2010, 8:06 pm

      I began this writing to lininally bring reality to bogus economic theory and tie it to the end as Liberty so as not to disappoint. It became long, and I cut leaving just this:

      The best way to descripe the ever changing “Game” with a hidden set of rules is “Nash’s Non Co-operative Game Theory” in which an individual is prevented from reaching the ‘goal’ by agreeing to ignor the greater goal, by all settling for an inferior goal, – nearly equal for all. The theory is that only one individual can get the Hot Blond, and while doing so no one will get Laid because all will fail in the fight. But, if the group will ignore the Blond, and take the lessor girls, all will get Laid. And thus; the whole creates punative means of punishing any individual who seeks the ultimate goal individually ? So what is this governing form:

      U.N. ?
      Federalism ?
      Democracy ?
      Individual Rights ?

      Theories on economic ‘means’ that all ignor the requirement for Fair Weights and Measures, and Value is all that is proffered anymore.

      Ultimate success for mankind was expressed by John Marshall, Chief Justice SCUSA in Georgia at a debate.

      Marshall – Do you believe in an immutable Law ?
      Advesary – No.
      Marshall – The debate is over, because If You Do not Believe in the Immutable Law, you shall change the rules and change the rules until all is lost.
      Marshall walked off the stage.

      There are no Immutable Rules in economic theory today, because all are based upon a lie currency that can be skewed to punish the individual

    • Benjamin August 31, 2010, 8:26 pm

      “Robert’s conclusion… If we’d shackled ourselves with a limited – er, “intrinsic value” currency system, we wouldn’t have had the operational flexibility & speed required to ramp up and win WWII, or any similarly demanding context. Get real.”

      Not to put TOO fine a point on it, but the world wars were the consequence of man trying to be a “creative” outside-the-barrel monkey. Plunder and default are superior? Get real.

    • Robert September 1, 2010, 6:41 am

      “Robert’s conclusion “The only alternative is to eliminate debt-based money and replace it with money of inherent, intrinsic value ” is simply calling for a return to a von Mises closed money system, e.g., a gold-std.”

      – This is not an accurate statement. My thesis is that Money is wealth- transferable in exchange for alternative articles of wealth that reflect superior value to the individual when compared to the item(s) being offered in trade.

      value is not determined by denomination, only currency is determined by denomination. Value is determined by the desire to own. Value in a collective sense is, therefore, always and forever unquantifiable.

      Nowhere in my original analysis did I mention Gold, or the Gold standard.

      “No complex system can ever be usefully discussed in such simplistic terms. No matter how you perturb a complex system, it will simply re-equilibrate in some unpredictable way. One learns that in high school chemistry. ”

      – Ah yes- the age old entropy and quiescence argument- well, let me tell you Roger, Quiescence does not change the quantity of matter in the system at the atomic level, nor does it change the basic nature of the information that describes the system.

      Chemistry must and does always yield to physics. in the economic reality- all weights and measures of exchange and currency must always yield to human will.

      My premise is that there is no such thing as an “open” economic system. There is no such thing as economic output. All output (realized as wealth) only serves as the capital that forms the input of another economic cycle.

      “here’s one, tiny re-equilibration FORCED by these two closed-minded approaches – “collective entity-debt-to-self by a currency issuer is, by definition, simply the act of absolving an individual of debt to the issuing-community” [i.e., a group writing off an individual’s debt]”

      Bah. Collective entity debt to self is complete bunk- IMHO. We might as well re-evaluate the Biblical Jubilee.

      If money were really free, then the follow on logic must dictate that all wealth is a fallacy, and all perception of value is irrelevant.

      “our independent wildcatters started shredding this box back in 1933, and there’s no going back”

      – The defeatist’s argument. “Things are different this time”, or “complex problems require complex solutions”

      Ya know, after 5000 years, a bucket of water still puts out a campfire.

      “If we’d shackled ourselves with a limited – er, “intrinsic value” currency system, we wouldn’t have had the operational flexibility & speed required to ramp up and win WWII, or any similarly demanding context. Get real.”

      Sorry- but this is an invalid Modus Tolens argument. You can not derive an alternative ending to World War Two (or the historical occurence of World War Two at all) based on an alternative assumption of whether or not there was a Gold Standard in place.
      Modern war (which I define as the French Revolution forward) is always simply a moral justification for the few to steal from the many, and currency debasement is always the best tool for the job.

  • Steve August 31, 2010, 8:20 am

    Seventy years ago one could become debt free by use of specie Coin, and extinguishment “No State Shall. . .make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts'” (capitalization is specific to understanding). Is it possible to balance the books, so to speak, no matter what course is taken under any theory proffered herein ? The system in place is discharge, not Payment or Extinguishment as defined constitutionally. If I define Liberty as not owing to any superior (another term for Payment/Extinguishment), can Liberty be obtained today, as it was before the Banking Act of 1913, and the 1971 Nixon acts ? Ultimately under what has been opined herein, can Liberty be obtained in the Republic by any means proffered ?

    Ultimately 1 Troy ounce of gold purchases a suit of clothes, and that fact has been a constant in American History, and in the present. One Troy Ounce of silver represented the Labor, or Credit owned by a Man for a days toil not so long ago. The era of Free Silver disrupted balance for awhile, as has the futures markets wherein a trader can concentrate the labor of many under his own control.

    Regardless of which direction taken economically, will the People find Liberty, or deeper enfranchisement to a system ? No one has been able to take Robert to task for error in logic, nor; shall I attempt to do so. As well thought and written as this writing is; what is the end sum for Mankind ? Liberty ?

    • Robert August 31, 2010, 4:10 pm

      “what is the end sum for Mankind ? Liberty ?”

      Steve- I anticipated that any feedback from you on this topic would eventually reach the common factors of Liberty (capital L) versus servitude (lower case s) … I’m glad to see you didn’t let me down. 🙂

      Any perspon who desires to be free should have that liberty. I think one of the key global psychological stressors in place today is that the desire be truly free can not find its rightful place to be expressed in the modern world, but my personal faith says that it will be found, and possibly sooner rather than later.

      An increasing number of people are defaulting on their debts today simply because they hate the banks.

      It won’t take a great shift in psychology for them to start seeing their taxes the same way that they currently see their bank-debt, and to see government as they currently see the banks.

      When the chips are down, you can bet the farm that the government will throw the banks under the bus long before they will let the mobs storm Washington.

      The banks can’t give us Liberty, nor can government. Liberty is for us (a collection of individuals) to claim, and starving the beast certainly seems to be working so far…. but there are still plenty of beasts out there that are way too fat.

  • C.C. August 31, 2010, 6:47 am

    Agreed – Excellent piece.

    And insightful response from jj… CON-fidence (or lack thereof) in this currency, is the wildcard. And I have a hunch that ‘wildcard’ is going to make it to the playoffs – and perhaps even further.

    This government (politics) is Hell bent on distorting the natural (deflationary) process that is trying to play itself out – and they are going to succeed in ruining the currency, or at the very least, severely devaluing it in the process.

    Then again, isn’t that really the only alternative – to ratchet down the value of the currency in a controlled-burn fashion, in order to buy some time and provide a little breathing room for existing and future debt liabilities?

    If not, then just what are the ‘tools’ or other ‘options’ the Fed/Treasury has at it’s disposal?

    Spook the public now, and soften them up to the idea of higher rates of inflation as an acceptable means of countering a faltering economy.

    • JAL August 31, 2010, 6:48 pm

      +100.

  • Edwardo August 31, 2010, 5:22 am

    A commendable essay, Robert. And even though he has not said so in so many words, I agree with JJ in his suggestion that the inevitable shunning of zero maturity (Federal Reserve) notes, much better known as dollars, is a game changer with respect to your formulations.

    And even though I believe there is much value in the case for owning physical gold and silver, I think the idea of “inherent, intrinsic value” is flawed, because, ultimately, making claims that gold, for example, is, by its nature, beautiful, are utterly subjective. I happen to think fabricated coins made of silver and gold are lovely, but that’s just me. Intrinsic qualities are a matter of perception- To wit: Gold’s vaunted beauty, which mostly resides in its yellow shininess, is but a trick of light upon the eye. It is not intrinsic to the metal- and nothing else. And when we are talking about perception, I can’t help but be reminded of how we got into this mess in the first place.

    This is not to say that a PM backed system might not be preferable to our present one. Antal Fekete has made some excellent points on behalf of the viability of PMs as money, especially via his discussions of the “real bills” system that under girded trade in days of y (ore).

    The only alternative is to eliminate debt-based money and replace it with money of inherent, intrinsic value

    • SDavid August 31, 2010, 5:40 am

      “The only alternative is to eliminate debt-based money and replace it with money of inherent, intrinsic value.”

      Like food?

    • Robert August 31, 2010, 3:01 pm

      True-

      I deliberately refrained from defining Gold or Silver as articles of inherent, intrinsic value for the very reason that value (like beauty) is in the eye of the beholder-

      I guess the premise of a truly basic hard money system is that any item(s) that facilitate a trade constitute the money of that trade, and that these relative values (paper to cows, cows to tractors, etc) should float. Many people see this as preposterous, but I submit that it’s all just statistics, and that modern Internet technology is making it less fanatical than you might think- Just look at the Internet traffic boom that is Craigslist.

      Governments hate money, because without a common unit of denomination, it becomes increasingly difficult to shear the flock of the government dole- so governments addict themselves (as as many of us as possible) on currency as a proxy, because currency allows the denomonation in form that gives them(gov’t) the open door to latch onto us like giant vampire leaches.

    • BDTR August 31, 2010, 4:02 pm

      Edwardo,

      It’s worth noting that gold’s intrinsic value encompasses a bit more than a subjective aesthetic value of shiny stuff. Since it’s origins are of cosmic cataclysm, it’s extremely limited presence on Earth is as unique as it’s chemical properties.

      As described by Danny Koenig “it’s a very rare substance that makes up only 5/1000000 of the Earth’s outer layer. This is like saying 10 million m’n’ms (the candy) represented the entire world’s outer crust, only five of them were made of gold.

      It’s physical and chemical properties are:

      Density (g/cc): 19.3 Melting Point (K): 1337.58 Boiling Point (K): 3080 Appearance: soft, malleable, yellow metal Atomic Radius (pm): 146 Atomic Volume (cc/mol): 10.2 Covalent Radius (pm): 134 Ionic Radius: 85 (+3e) 137 (+1e) Specific Heat (@20C J/g mol): 0.129 Fusion Heat (kJ/mol): 12.68 Evaporation Heat (kJ/mol): ~340 Debye Temperature (K): 170.00 Pauling Negativity Number: 2.54 First Ionizing Energy (kJ/mol): 889.3 Oxidation States: 3, 1 Lattice Structure: Face-Centered Cubic (FCC) Lattice Constant (): 4.080 Specific Gravity (20C): 18.88

      As a matter of cultural recognition, no other substance has been employed as money for exchange of value by the entirety of humanity throughout global civilization. It is therefore by default the most democratically selected currency ever employed by mankind and is denied that status presently only through political subterfuge.

      Besides, it’s pretty, shiny stuff.

      (Oh, and eloquent piece, Mr. Moore!)

    • Benjamin August 31, 2010, 6:27 pm

      Well, does the fact that a human being has subjective values negate their other values? I should hope not!

      That gold has subject values does not detract from it’s core values of honesty and stability over long periods of time. Copper can be honest, but it lacks the latter quality, as does every other commodity known to man. Quite simply, gold is the best money because it’s not very good for being anything else. It accumulates, and the more it does, the more stable it’s supply becomes.

      Some would say that jewelry is one use, but I would say that jewelry is just another form of useless, of accumulation. Yet others would say that computer technoologies increasingly rely on gold. But in those applications, gold is a thin, thin, thin layer added to protect vital components from corroding and/or tarnishing; few applications require so much as to destabilize the 160k tonnes that exist above ground.

  • RA August 31, 2010, 5:20 am

    I would think that creditors would stop the lending after getting burned once or twice. Would that not stop the cycle in short time, or ate least longer term. It is an unsustainable model that would eventualy lead to bust of some kind.

  • jj August 31, 2010, 3:04 am

    Robert, what happens to your mentioned models if the currency in use be it the US$ suffers a loss in confidence and all those owning US$’s want out of the currency and the most practical way of doing so is paying whatever price just to own real goods, not devalued currency.
    Economic growth is not going to create higher pricing anytime soon but the loss of faith in currency creates higher pricing as the value of paper currency drops dramatically so essentials will reprice much higher.
    Loss of confidence in currency can be brought on by many reasons and it will effect big time the servicing of debt.
    If correct and 4 million Americans are no longer making mortgage payments than what are they doing with the savings from not servicing their debt obligations?
    Saving for a rainy day?
    Very interesting thoughts Robert as both rising essentials and cheaper nonessentials are common, yet the issue that could drasticly change everything to Hyper speed would be a large drop in the value of the US$ to the point of …………………forget paying off any level of debt gov or private as all monies will be needed for the basic essentials.
    A return to a Gold backed currency would be the only way to revalue paper money if the loss of confidence hits the US$, more debt doesn’t remove the original debt

    • Robert August 31, 2010, 3:12 pm

      “Robert, what happens to your mentioned models if the currency in use be it the US$ suffers a loss in confidence and all those owning US$’s want out of the currency and the most practical way of doing so is paying whatever price just to own real goods, not devalued currency.”

      – Let me put that question back to you like this, JJ:

      What happens to any item in a closed system when this common psychology occurs?- as demand for item A rises (while supply for A remains constant or falls), at the same time demand for item B is falling (as supplies rise or remain constant)- then by necesssity, it would require more of item B to facilitate a trade for item A…

      Some might challenge my premise that the global economy is a closed system, and that floating currency exchange rates make it “open”, but I disagree. The world is a shrinking place in economic terms- regardless of how much currency money is out there sloshing around.

      I’m not a big fan of the premise that the US is on the path to being a new Wiemar or Zimbabwe, but I do believe that the US dollar (as a fiat currency) is slated to suffer the same fate as all other fiat currencies throughout history- however, I personally believe that the Dollar will go with a wimper, as opposed to a bang. Just my own point of view- I reserve the right to be wrong about that 🙂

    • Robert August 31, 2010, 3:16 pm

      “If correct and 4 million Americans are no longer making mortgage payments than what are they doing with the savings from not servicing their debt obligations? – Saving for a rainy day?”

      I guess if you believe the number of people buying Treasuries in the “households” category (which has reported a 500% increase in volume since 2008) , then that is one possibility.

      Or, maybe they are simply doing their best to keep their kids clothed, fed, and warm?

      Tough question.

    • jj August 31, 2010, 3:48 pm

      Thanks Robert, human emotion is going to be a big factor in how the next few years unfold, imo many of us are going to be proven very wrong with our outlooks.

      Your thoughts regarding the US$ exiting the reserve currency stage with a wimper is possible but the FX markets turn on a wink and loss of confidence creates instant panic

      Great forum, Rick

  • Don August 31, 2010, 2:53 am

    Finally a person with finance, economic and currency understanding that has communicated in a sophisticated common sense linguistic manner. I commend you Robert Moore for excellence.
    Don

    • Robert August 31, 2010, 4:27 pm

      Thanks Don, and to all of you for the compliments!

      As a Systems Engineer by trade- I have made a career out of being able to understand how complex systems work from the inside out (trouble shooting unexpected behavior would be impossible without this ability), and I have gravitated toward some of the most complex, security intensive systems there are- I suppose it is a great irony that I keep global banking transaction data secure for my daily bread- but I choose to focus on the protection of customer privacy moreso than corporate dollars and sense (as opposed to cents).

      I view the global economy as just another wildly complex system, although one that exists without real output. In an economy, all output must form the capital (input) to start another processing cycle.

      Rick has said many times that the collection of minds who make time to express their thoughts in this forum is unique, and I must agree on that point. This is a group whose viewpoints I sincerely enjoy reading every day. I always get a daily rush of thought-fuel from Rick and all of you folks.

  • Sazelus August 31, 2010, 2:37 am

    How will this model be affected if government can no longer borrow ?

    • Robert August 31, 2010, 2:45 pm

      The is a recurring question that often comes up in “hard money” discussions.

      I believe that government(s) would still be able to borrow the same way they do today- by issuing Bonds and Bills- the difference is that there would be no printing press (or today’s electronic equivalent) back-stopping government borrowing, which means that as government grow it’s debt, there had better be corresponding economic growth in the system, and a general willingness to pay the taxes necessary to service this debt.

      The military industrial complex is a clear example of this distortion- There are HUGE defense companies out there whose productivity is counted as part of nominal GDP, even through 100% of their output goes into the defense system, and is therefore 100% financed by taxpayers (Peter). Thus, these government contractors (Paul) have no real impact on National Product at all, since the only way they can be paid is by the government first robbing Peter.

  • Benjamin August 31, 2010, 1:31 am

    I can’t find a thing wrong with your explanation, Mr. Moore, and that’s certainly not for a lack of trying. I have to wonder if there will even be any contradictory views today…

  • Steve August 31, 2010, 1:28 am

    YAHOO ! Robert, way to go.